Using Quneo pads for pitch shifting a chord

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Hi

I’m a midi guitarist and am trying to bend pitch in set intervals with the Quneo (Midi controller made by Keith Mcmillen) I’m using ableton live and the plugin I’m trying to bend the pitches of is Massive.
I’d like to use 12 of the pressure pads on the quneo to transpose the note/notes I’m holding

Pad 1 = semitone up
Pad 2 = hole step up (tone)
Pad 3 = minor 3rd up
Pad 4 = major 3rd up
Pad 5 = perfect 4th up
Pad 6 = tritone up
Pad 7 = Perfect 5th up
Pad 8 = sharp 5th up
Pad 9 = perfect 6th up
Pad 10 = flat 7th up
Pad 11 = Perfect 7th up
Pad 12 = octave up

so when I’m holding a midi note (or chord), when I press a pad, the note (or chord ) will transpose up to the interval assigned to that pad. when I let go of the pad, the note would then drop back to the original note (or chord) being held

I know that pitchbend has 16,384 possible bend positions. and you just have to divide up the numbers to arrive at the interval you wish to jump to when pressing the pad on the quneo.

I’m told I need some kind of software in-between the quneo and massive to achieve this. I’m not a programmer so I’m hoping there is some kind of template already written to accomplish this.

Please let me know if Bome has a way to do this and if it is already in place or if I’d have to write something to make this happen.

Thanks

Burr Johnson

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 1, Answers: 9)
December 1, 2017 4:04 am
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OK, I have no way to test it because I don’t have your configuration but this should be pretty close. I only set up 2 pads. You will need to set up the rest. I assumed everything is on MIDI channel 2. If not you will have to modify to the correct MIDI channel.

I have 2 Presets

Bend Set

3 translators. All they do is adjust the global variable ga which will control the maximum bend amount

Key up sets back to 0 for next note

Pad 1 sets it to 700

Pad 2 sets it to 1500

Preset Bend Adjust – Does the actual bend depending on the pressure you are putting on a given pad. Since it is channel pressure it doesn’t matter which pad you press except that it has a rule that looks at the current value of ga and will not bend beyond that point.

Panic turns all notes off (if Massive supports it, If not you will need to send a string of individual note off keys. Of course if you press and release a key on you Triple Play, it will release that note only.

Set RPN Range. Set to maximum amount

 

Let me know if this works for you.

If not, I would probably need to set up my rig with a Launchkey MINI as my instrument and use my Alesis VI61 keys to control channel pressure. Hopefully, I will not need to reconfigure my studio and this should get you close enough to figure the rest out on your own.

Regards,

Steve

bome@sniz.biz

Independent Bome Programming Specialist

Bome Q&A moderator

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 24, Answers: 1369)
January 14, 2018 1:57 am
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OK, let me make sure I have the right picture then. Is what I show below what you are trying to accomplish?

In the first round, you told me you were using CC that you want convert to pitch bend.

In the second round you told me you wanted to use aftertouch to convert to pitch bend.

Now I’m thinking you want each button to control a different maximum amount of bend and the pressure on that button to provide the real time range from 0-max.

 

So say button 1 can provide up to 700 bend and Button 2, up to 1500 bend and so forth.

If this is what you want. then we would set a global variable to the maximum based on the button pressed but not perform any pitch bend itself with button push, but let the aftertouch actual provide the bend information.

Please clarify.

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 24, Answers: 1369)
January 12, 2018 10:20 pm
Hi Steve. I’m sorry if my posts have been unclear. But It sounds like you’ve explained perfectly what I’m after. Your diagram is Awesome!! So to be clear, Yes I want button 1 to control pitch bend that will not exceed a half step (700) and then button 2 to control pitch bend that will not ended a whole step (1500), and then all the other buttons to move up to higher and higher intervals. And the way it unfolds is this: I play a note on the guitar that comes into the computer via the Triple play. While the note is still ringing I press the quneo pad 1. As I increase the pressure on the pad the note will start to bend heading up towards the half step limit. When I reach the maximum pressure for the pad (127) the note will top off at a half step (700). When I let go of the pad the note then drops back to the original note. If I play a note again and then reach for pad 2 on the quneo, the same thing will happen, but this time it will top off at a whole step (1500). Pad 3 would be a minor third, pad 4 a major third, etc….. So if this is clear, can you send me a file that does this? Thank you Steve for all your help Burr
( at January 14, 2018 12:29 am)
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Hi Steve my bome file that has all 12 semi-tones set in translators (I posted a picture of it with its log window in view on this stream a day or so ago) speaks to massive (which is in a track in ableton live) just fine.  And yes, the “midi from” portion of the track in live is set to receive from “Bome Midi Translator 1”.  So I have gotten my bome  file to talk to live and all the pads are moving the notes up to the pitch they are supposed to.  But for this new challenge of having the pressure pads “glide” up to their transposed spot depending on how hard you press the pad is not working with your file .  I sent you, in this discussion that picture of the bome file so you could see what the quneo is sending when I press, for example the first pad (the picture shows in the log window what the quneo sent when I pressed pressure pad number 1) In your file (pictured here in this post) you have in your incoming settings Raw midi sysex stuff.  but the quneo is not sending that, from what I can tell with the bome log.  so I don’t understand how those incoming settings are going to work when I press the pad on the quneo.  Plus you don’t even have any outgoing settings at all.  I tried to mirror the outgoing settings from my bome file to yours but that did nothing.  I figured you would need to see what the quneo was sending when I press one of the pads so you could determine what needs to go into the incoming and outgoing settings to make the behavior happen that we are after here. As you can see in the log window from the pic I previously posted, the quneo is sending on midi channel 2 and cc 36. the value goes up and down as I increase and decrease pressure on the pad.  So, how do we make your file take that information and respond the way we are hoping?   I’ve included three new screen shots: 1st one which is your file to make sure that that  is the file  I’m supposed to be working with. 2nd one which is a screen shot of my bome file, showing the incoming and outgoing settings for the first translator (with the bend set to 700 to give us movement of a half step up) and the 3rd screen shot which is again my bome file with the project default midi input, and output port settings.  As always thank you very much for your time and help.

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 1, Answers: 9)
January 12, 2018 9:03 pm
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Hi Steve

I downloaded the file you posted in the chat board and have been trying to make it work. Not sure how to make your file work with my gear.  I’ve included a screen shot of Bome’s log window and in it is the midi stream that results when I press the first pad on the quneo.  this is in my bome file so you can see on the right all the settings that are working for the quneo to talk to notes and bend them.   But when I open your file I can’t seem to get the bending to happen like we’ve discussed.  If I start changing things around to be like my file then I can cause a bend to happen (but not the new way we are trying for here. ) I thought if I showed you with the screen shot, what the quneo is sending then maybe you could tell me how to set it up to get the job done.

Thanks again Steve

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 1, Answers: 9)
January 11, 2018 5:04 am

Is Massive set to monitor Bome MIDI Translator virtual output? If not, you need to change your default routing to the port Massive is looking for as input?

( at January 11, 2018 3:52 pm)
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Actually, I found a keyboard that I have that has channel aftertouch.  I’ve made a short sample.

For my aliases Queno is my Launch Control and Fishman Triple Play is my VI 61 keyboard

I only set 2 pitch bend amounts.

For output I sent to my Microsoft Wavetable Synth

 

Since I use channel pressure which only puts output 0-127, I shifted the values to the left by 7 bits to give me the scaling I need.

I also used Note Off message to release pitch bend.

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 24, Answers: 1369)
December 29, 2017 8:47 pm
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Something like this should work. I only changed Bend 1 and Bend 2 and disabled the other translators.  As you will see instead of using the controllers to generate the pitch bend, they each just set the variable “ga” to the maximum pitch bend amount but they do nothing else.

You will either use translator 1 (Polyphonic Aftertouch to Bend) or translator 2 (Channel Aftertouch to Bend) but not both depending on the type of aftertouch your instrument supports).  When applying pressure you can control the bend amount (up to the maximum) by the amount of pressure you apply. In rules, I look at the value of ga and make sure we do not go over the maximum bend amount).

I really have no way to test this since I don’t have any controllers with aftertouch support.

So essentially the CC’s set the maximum bend amount ga and then the actual pressure you apply to keys controls the pitch bend.

Now if you want the bend time to be at a constant interval as opposed to key pressure, then this would have to be done with a timer instead of key pressure, but I don’t think that is what you are asking.

You would have the timer send out pitch bend commands with varying amounts at certain intervals.  If this what you want, we can explore this as a separate option but let’s hold off since I think you are really looking to control pitch bend with aftertouch.

Steve

bome@sniz.biz

Independent Bome Programming Specialist

Bome Q&A moderator

 

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 24, Answers: 1369)
December 29, 2017 8:01 pm
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Hi everyone. Hi Steve. I got the Bome software to properly talk to Ableton and Massive and do the transposing that I wanted it to do. Its working great. Thank you so much for you amazing help.  I attached the file so you can see how I got it done.  Question:  As you know the Quneo can send pressure info on each of its pressure pads.  Can you tell me how to adjust the file I attached so that each of the translators in the bome file receives the pressure information sent by the pad assigned to it and moves  the note to its desired pitch gradually ?  The way it is now, when you press on any of the pads the note is transposed  right to the desired change.  How do I make it so as you  increase the pressure on the pad  the note will  move up to its desired transposition?

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 1, Answers: 9)
December 29, 2017 4:54 am

Hi, I’ll take a look at it tomorrow morning. We should be able to use polyphonic aftertouch if the instrument supports it. Many support midi instruments support only channel pressure aftertouch only so not sure. Some support neither. Do you know if it supports either type of aftertouch and if so which?

Polyphonic aftertouch is unique to each note, while channel aftertouch is not.

( at December 29, 2017 6:44 am)
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So here is an updated project file.

I have set up the Following Aliases. You will be prompted to assign these to actual devices the first time you open it.

Fishman Triple Play – Assign this to your MIDI guitar (however it shows up on your system)

Ableton Massive Track – Assign this to Bome MIDI Translator Virtual Port 1

Quneo – Assign this to your Quneo device (however it shows up)

I’ve set up on route from the Triple Play to Ableton (Massive ->  Bome MIDI Translator 1)

I set up translators to translate messages from your Quneo to send pitch bend to Ableton (Massive – BMT1)

You will need to assign the start bend and end bend translator inputs to the messages your Quneo sends.

In Ableton Live under MIDI settings you will need to set up Bome MIDI Translator 1 as a “Track” Input

In Ableton Live you need to have input of your Massive Track also to Bome MIDI Translator One

This should do it for you.

Let me know if you have any further questions

Steve

bome@sniz.biz

Independent Bome Programming Specialist

Bome Q&A moderator

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 24, Answers: 1369)
December 8, 2017 10:41 pm

The real only open switch here is understanding the Pitch Bend Range that Massive will support. I haven’t seen any synths recently that can pitch bend up to a whole octave. Typically it is only 2-3 semitones.

( at December 8, 2017 11:05 pm)
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Hi everyone and thank you for your help.  It looks like all the attachments here require Bome.  I don’t have it.  is there a free version?  Its pretty expensive, especially if I don’t even know if it can do my request yet.

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 1, Answers: 9)
December 3, 2017 3:25 am

You can download an evaluation copy and it is free for testing. It is fully functional but will time out after 20 minutes of use.

https://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator

Steve
bome@sniz.biz
Independent Bome Programming Specialist
Bome Q&A moderator

( at December 3, 2017 3:39 am)
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Thanks, Gabriel, it looks like your solution has different pitch bend value depending on incoming note. I’ll have to play with it a bit and see what it sounds like.

 

I’m posting an update to the project I did yesterday. Now it is closer to what I think Burr is looking for.

In this version I’m using the first pad on my Novation Launchkey as a pitch bend.  I also now properly process note off messages.

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 24, Answers: 1369)
December 1, 2017 3:02 pm

Hi and thank you again for helping me. This will make for a great video showcasing Bome if I can just figure it out. I’ve tried opening all of these attachments and can’t seem to make any progress getting anything to happen. I ultimately will be bending notes being played from Massive inside ableton. But I first tried just opening up Massive as a stand alone and then tried the three files in this post stream. nothing happened. remember I’m on a mambook pro and am using the Fishman Triple Play Midi guitar to trigger the notes. nothing I did in the midi input or output settings seemed to get any bending to happen . I think I’m just not setting up the midi ins and outs right but I’ve tried and tried. I tried reading the set up info in the manual but I’m not sure about a bunch of stuff. Like the select midi devices that sometimes comes up when you open the program. I don’t know what to put in those fields (BMT IN2, BMT out 1, don’t know what that is. PedalPiano3.0 ? Rem 61 in ? Pro 24 MIDI? don’t know what any of that is. Furthermore when I close the “select MIDI Devices” I don’t see any way to reopen it. I’m so sorry for my ignorance. I’m just trying to figure all this out.

( at December 8, 2017 9:27 pm)

I mean I can figure that “BMT” means bome midi translator, but I don’t quite know what to do with it.

( at December 8, 2017 9:30 pm)

So If I have a track inside ableton with massive in it and I want to trigger the notes with the Fishman triple play, then I will need to select “fishman Triple Play” as the input type for that track (like I always have). but how do I get the BMT to target just that track and receive cc commands from the Quneo to create bending activity for just that track ?

( at December 8, 2017 9:34 pm)

What is the MIDI source that send the MIDI notes to Massive? The path should look something like the below
–>Midi Source (notes) ———————-> Bome MIDI Translator -> Massive -> Music output
—————>Midi Source (controller to send pitch bend ^
In this configuration you will have two inputs, one from your MIDI Notes source and the other from your controller. MT Pro will need to be set up to monitor both inputs and then to send output to a Virtual MIDI Port such as BMT 1 which is the input to Massive which sends out audio sounds (either directly if stand alone or through the Ableton Engine if as a VST.

Is this an accurate depiction of what you are trying to do? Essentially you are merging two MIDI streams into massive. At least this is what I think you are trying to do. If not, maybe you should clarify further.

( at December 8, 2017 9:52 pm)

Hi, looks like our message crossed paths.
You need to feed Both Triple play and Quneo into Bome MIDI Translator. The translator should just pass notes through with a route from Triple Play to Bome MIDI Translator 1 output. The feed from Queno will be set up to send pitch bend messages and send to the same output stream. You don’t add routes for this, you use translators to do the work. Then in Ableton, you want to set up Bome MIDI translator 1 as your MIDI input for performance and feed that to the input of your Massive plugin.

I can modify the project file with Aliases created for you. Once you assign the alias names to your actual physical instruments, you should be all set. Does this make sense to you?

( at December 8, 2017 10:00 pm)

Hi
I’ve been trying to get BMT to just successfully talk to one track in Live and so this is what I did. I opened an new project in BMT (with no Translators present) I set the track in Live to take midi from “Bome Midi Translator 1”. Then I checked the box in BMT’s midi input for “Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar” Then I checked the box in the midi output (of BMT) for “Bome MIDI Translator 1 virtual out”. but no sound or activity in the track in live. but If I go to the midi router in BMT and link “Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar” on the left to either “bome midi translator 1 virtual out”, or “Bome Virtual Port 1”, then I see in Live activity in the track and hear sound. so I guess you have to have the midi router involved to make the connection? I thought it was just for midi through activity which implies a connection that will not participate in any translation behaviors.

( at December 9, 2017 9:34 pm)

Yes, any connection you make by routing will be a thru connection from the input to the output of BMT. However if you have any translators with “swallow” checked, that particular message will not go through if the translator outgoing action fires. If it doesn’t fire, then the MIDI message will still go through.
For your other controller, you probably don’t want a thru connection (pitch bend) because you will want the translators to process all incoming messages.

( at December 9, 2017 9:45 pm)

Hi again

Ok thank you. And yes, please send me the file with the aliases as you described. here the CCs Quneo will be sending (on CC message for each of 12 pads). Next to their CC message is their desired transposition effect.

Pad 1, Channel 2, CC 36 move the note up a half step
Pad 2 Channel 2, CC 37 move the note up a whole step
Pad 3 Channel 2, CC 38 move the note up a minor 3rd
Pad 4 Channel 2 CC 39 move the note up an major 3rd
Pad 5 Channel 2 CC 55 move the note up a fourth
Pad 6 Channel 8 CC 46 move the note up a #4th
Pad 7 Channel 8 CC 47 move the note up a fifth
Pad 8 Channel 8 CC 49 move the note up a # fifth
Pad 9 Channel 8 CC 64 move the note up a sixth
Pad 10 Channel 8 CC 65 move the note up a flat 7th
Pad 11 Channel 8 CC 66 move the note up a perfect 7th
Pad 12 Channel 8 CC 67 move the note up a perfect octave
Please include the proper setting up procedure as well so BMT will hear the Midi Guitar and the Quneo and talk to the track in Live.
You’re awesome. thank you so much for all this help

( at December 9, 2017 9:53 pm)

I sent the file yesterday, you will have to create all of your translators but the aliases and routes are set up.

https://www.bome.com/wp-content/uploads/cma_attachments/1512769290292_Pitch_Bend_Demo-2017-12-08.bmtp

( at December 9, 2017 10:07 pm)

Also the pitch bend amount will be a number but I don’t know the number. It will depend on how you have set the pitch bend range in Massive. I think you will need to experiment with the numbers after setting up Massive to determine the output number for each PAD

( at December 9, 2017 10:20 pm)
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OOPS…  forgot the code.  Here it is

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 26, Answers: 139)
December 1, 2017 8:48 am
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Another approach might be to incorporate something like the attached code.  It’s pretty dumb, but also pretty direct.  You’d send the relevant pitchbend message for each desired transposition when you press one or the other Quneo pad

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 26, Answers: 139)
December 1, 2017 8:46 am
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Hi,

Bome MIDI Translator has the capability to send Pitch Bend message. The amount of bend usually depends on

  1. The synthesizer used and it’s capabilities
  2. The Pitch Bend Range RPN Parameter

I’ve attached a simple demo file. I use the Escape key to set the pitch bend rage using a raw RPN message.

Then if you hit any note, it will play and after 500ms bend up to maximum value.

After another 500ms, the bend returns

Right now I don’t have note off message so if you hit ESC it in addition to RPN message it sends all notes off message.

I tested with Microsoft Wavetable Synth and the RPN message didn’t seem to have any effect for that virtual synth.

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 24, Answers: 1369)
December 1, 2017 5:25 am