Using Quneo pads for pitch shifting a chord

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Hi

I’m a midi guitarist and am trying to bend pitch in set intervals with the Quneo (Midi controller made by Keith Mcmillen) I’m using ableton live and the plugin I’m trying to bend the pitches of is Massive.
I’d like to use 12 of the pressure pads on the quneo to transpose the note/notes I’m holding

Pad 1 = semitone up
Pad 2 = hole step up (tone)
Pad 3 = minor 3rd up
Pad 4 = major 3rd up
Pad 5 = perfect 4th up
Pad 6 = tritone up
Pad 7 = Perfect 5th up
Pad 8 = sharp 5th up
Pad 9 = perfect 6th up
Pad 10 = flat 7th up
Pad 11 = Perfect 7th up
Pad 12 = octave up

so when I’m holding a midi note (or chord), when I press a pad, the note (or chord ) will transpose up to the interval assigned to that pad. when I let go of the pad, the note would then drop back to the original note (or chord) being held

I know that pitchbend has 16,384 possible bend positions. and you just have to divide up the numbers to arrive at the interval you wish to jump to when pressing the pad on the quneo.

I’m told I need some kind of software in-between the quneo and massive to achieve this. I’m not a programmer so I’m hoping there is some kind of template already written to accomplish this.

Please let me know if Bome has a way to do this and if it is already in place or if I’d have to write something to make this happen.

Thanks

Burr Johnson

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 1, Answers: 9)
December 1, 2017 4:04 am
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Hi Burr,
Any progress with the latest project file?

Steve

( at November 30, 2018 5:52 am)
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I think the key issue here is they way we are each controlling the  pitch bend.

From what I see from your video, you are using a CC to control the bend since you have it assigned to a Macro knob.

My methodology uses the pitch bend of the oscillator itself.

The reason nothing works when you enable my “From Instrument” is because you are in fact bypassing many translators with your default routes.

I suggest you try the following and program your knob to CC 22 on MIDI CH2.

I have it set up so if you send a note-on from Quneo Note 13 it will use my method. If you send note-on Note 14 from Quneo, it uses your method.

Under your method you need to have CC 22 set up as your knob and Oscilattor set up as the first screenshot below

Under my method we use the pitch bend and you nee to set your main ocsillator as in the second screenshot below.

I’ve also attached the project file. In it, I added the same simulation that you described as I believe your pedal uses. If the sustain pedal is pressed it will suppress any note off messages from my LX25+ and then when released sends note off messages to every note on MIDI CH2.

 

I’ve tested both methodologies with my rig so now it is probably a matter of choice on how you wish to implement it.

I believe my method will effect all oscillators running in Massive where yours will only effect the oscillator you have programmed with the given cc.

 

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 31, Answers: 2423)
December 7, 2018 6:10 pm
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Hi Burr,

I suspect the problem is with the aliases you are using.

For Note input I point the Alias “Instrument – Notes” from my sound source which in my case is the MIDI Keyboard LX25.  I suspect you are sending your notes from triple play to your FC1 which holds the note for you and sends it to MT Pro.  The bottom line is the sound source needs to be whatever is sending the note information and you should assign the Instrument-Notes Alias to that device.

As I showed with the video, I can send notes from my LX25 and then adjust the pitch bend using the Quneo.  I’m using MIDI CH1 as my sound source so if you are using MIDI CH2 from your FC1 you will likely need to change translators 1.0 and 1.1 to the MIDI channel you are using.

The video also shows how I have Massive set.  I’m just using the pitch bend to change the tuning of the Oscillator 1. I have bend set to +12 for up and 0 for down.

 

Here is a picture of how I have it configure and how I think you need to set it up to work.

 

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 31, Answers: 2423)
December 4, 2018 5:20 am

Oh and you can change the velocity by changing translators 0.0 and 0.1 Outgoing action to put out qq as velocity instead of 127 and 0.

( at December 4, 2018 5:24 am)

I’ve had so much difficulty on this. Things have stopped making sense.
1. The Boom Midi Translator seems to be acting unpredictably, sometimes doing one thing, sometimes doing another. Maybe its me.
2. I set the alias “Instrument – Notes” to receive input from the Triple play. so now when the file is open, it throws up a “Select MIDI Device” window, and I see for the output, the “Bome Midid Translator 1 virtual out” is selected. for the input, the “Fishman Triple TP Guitar” is selected. So I click Ok.
3. Since the MIDI Router already has the “Instrument – Notes” connected to the “Abelton Massive Track” I actually don’t need to have the alias checked in the MIDI Input of the Project default midi ports. So the only ports checked on are the Quneo and SSCOM port 1 (the SSCOM is greyed). I don’t know why the SSCOM port is involved at all actually. I believe that is supposed to be for the Soft Step foot controller made by Keith Mcmillen Company. I used to use that pedal before moving to the FC1.
So, set up like this, the hold functioning of the FC1 works fine. If I check the” instrument – Notes” alias on, then the hold functioning stops working.
But why not just leave it unchecked if things seem to be working? Why do we need the “from Instrument – Notes” preset at all? As soon as I engage that preset (set the proper midi channels and such) everything starts acting very unpredictably. Like I play a note on the guitar and its starts moving around on its own.

With the “instrument – Notes” alias set to hear the triple play for input notes, and the router set to connect it to the ableton track, and the only input alias checked (in the project default midi ports) is the Quneo, and the “from Quneo – channel Pressure” preset corrected to have the “Bend 1 set Max and adjust” translator output to midi channel 2, everything is working with one exception as previously explained. That being that when you let go of any of the pressure pads on the quneo, the note does not return to the held note, but drops an octave below that. How do we fix that?

( at December 5, 2018 7:56 pm)

Here is an email explanation I just got from one of the guys at fishman about how the FC1 works.
the default setting is that the FC1 sends cc 66 TO THE GUITAR CONTROLLER, which in turn throws out CC64 (sustain) to all channels with note/on note/off output in the patch IF THE PATCH DOES NOT USE THE PEDAL CHANNEL. IF the patch does use the pedal channel, this stifles note off then sends all notes off upon release.

Burr

( at December 5, 2018 8:00 pm)

So the guitar controller is directly connected to Bome MIDI Translator and the FC1 sends a CC66 to the Guitar Controller. The Guitar controller then converts that to a CC64 and sends a note on for the note plucked and suppresses a note off (if sent)? When you release the FC1 switch, the FC1 then sends an all notes off to the Guitar controller which in turn shuts off the note (and all others) being sent to Bome MIDI Translator? No wonder it doesn’t work. In my demo, MT Pro simply takes and incoming note when on and bends the pitch. It does not look for or respond to any sustain signals (any CCs’s other than that produced by the Quneo). So in essense the FC1 is not even connected to Bome MIDI Tanslator, it is Simply controlling the Fishman guitar controller.

BTW, messing around with Aliases is really just going to screw things up more so I’m not surprised that your are getting unpredictable results. Is everything that the Triple play sending (Notes and CC’s, being sent on MIDI CH 2?

I need to get the path straight before I can help you. The way my Alias was set up is the project file I sent is “From Instrument” should be the the source that is generating the notes”. I always use aliases instead of actual port names on my project files so you can assign them to your actual devices. Bypassing the aliases will just create problems because the translators are set up to send to the aliases only and will only work if the aliases are properly assigned.

So is this the path?

FC1 -> Triple Play -> BMT1 -> Ableton Live -> Massive Track
Quneo—————^

If so, what we probably need to do is set it translators to take the sustain message from
Triple play and process it as though it holds the note on.

Also, I’m unclear if you have Massive Oscillator Pitch Bend Parameters set up the same
as my test case.

What would help is:
1 ) A log file in BMT showing you plucking a string on your guitar and then pressing and holding then releasing your FC1 pedal annotating when you did this.
I’m specifically looking for the note-on, sustain CC and all notes off messages.
Do not try to use pitch bend from Quneo on this test. I suspect I will need to use the incoming CC messages to better simulate what your guitar controller is sending.

My demo was simply to take incoming note and apply a bend to it depending on the corresponding current note-on messages and did not do any CC processing except for Quneo CC to Pitch Bend messages.

2) A screen shot of how you have your Massive Pitch Bend set up as compared to the Video I showed you.

I will then see if I can get Massive eval working with Ableton Live (I’m running as Stand alone now), and then try and duplicate your environment even closer.

( at December 5, 2018 9:00 pm)

Another comment. The Preset From Instrument might not be needed. But if it makes things start acting weird, there is a good chance that the Channel settings are incorrect or there is something else in play that you have note explained thereby upsetting the default routes. I really need you to show me what you capture in the log to see what is happening. I asked for this repeatedly and unfortunately have never seen it. I apologize if you sent it but I just cant find it. The log file usually tells me most of what is really happening.

( at December 5, 2018 9:09 pm)
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Hi Burr,

 

I sent you email with a working solution project file and also published a quick demo at the Youtube link below:

 

https://youtu.be/KQJ2b4b0lKs

 

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 31, Answers: 2423)
December 3, 2018 8:24 pm

I tried the new project file. Don’t see any difference. Same stuff happens. I learned new things though that might shed light.
1. I’m not using the preset in the project file “From Instrument – Notes”. Since I can just connect to ableton via the Midi router in the general settings, I don’t try to do it with the preset. so now I tried to get that preset going and here is what I did:
1. Disconnected the Triple play from the midi router so I had no sound.
2. went to the “from Instrument – Notes” preset and selected Fishman Triple Play ->FC-1TP Guitar” in the midi input section for that preset.
3. went to the “Note on” and “Note off” translators and set the incoming and outgoing sections to midi channel 2. Again, because the Triple Play is transmitting on Channel 2.
Now I’m again hearing notes when I strike a string on the guitar. But here are some very important finds:
1. The note off commands from the FC1 are being ignored. So when I play a note and then step on the FC1 to hold the note, and then let go, the note does not turn off like its supposed to. (The FC1 sends out “all note off” commands when you release your foot. This works just fine when the midi router is involved. So to stop the note I had to play it again on the guitar and stop it (thereby sending a new note off command)
2. there is no velocity on the notes, they are all full blast, regardless of how hard or light I strike the string.
3. The notes are all down an octave, even before I bend them with the Quneo. So when I play any note on the guitar, its sounds an octave lower. Maybe this is a clue somehow.
Thank you again for all your hard work
Burr

( at December 4, 2018 4:59 am)

Could you provde detail again on how the FC1 is holding the note. Is it merely suppressing note off when you press the button and then sending all-note off when you release it?
Or is it sending sustain CC or latch CC?
If sending all-note off, is it sending individual note-off message based on last note pressed or simply the all note off CC? If the former, I could understand this as MT Pro is not programmed to recognize all-note off CC, sustain CC or latch CC in the version I sent you.

Steve

( at December 4, 2018 2:47 pm)
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Hi Burr,

 

Here is a new project file for you to try.

Translator 0.0 (which is disabled) uses pitch bend messages to adjust the Massive Oscillator frequency. However if you set the range to 12, it doesn’t seem to work very well on the lower ranges.

Translator 0.1 uses CC 20 to control the range an scales it accordingly as you desired. The drawback is that on low pitch bends it doesn’t have good resolution but it works very well on the high end and all buttons will result in a bend, the higher the bend amount the  better “stretch” it seems to have.

I’ll play with it a little more but since I’m not familiar with Massive, hope this will help get you in the right direction. Perhaps one of these to translators will help or maybe even a combination of the two where you haave 0.0 handle via “pitch bend” and 0.1 handle via CC.

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 31, Answers: 2423)
December 2, 2018 10:03 pm

Hi Steve. I’m so happy to report that progress has been made. Yay! But I had to do a couple of things. Here is what I did:

1. Opened the file
2. Set the midi router to make a connection from the” FC-TP Guitar “connection on the left to the “Ableton Massive Track” on the right. (you already had the “instrument Notes” connected to that same “Ableton Massive Track” spot. Now I can hear midi notes when I strum the guitar (remember the guitar is transmitting on Midi channel 2, as is the Quneo).
3. Go to and select the “Bend 1 Set Max and adjust” translator, and then go to its outgoing settings. there I set the midi channel to “1 – Channel 2” Which now enables the pads to bend the held note when I press on them .
So I think we are almost there.

But here is something that is happening that we don’t want:
When I play a note and push one of the pads while the note is ringing causing it to bend, and then stop pressing the pad, the note drops an octave rather than returning to its original position. I think this has something to do with the “use bipolar pitchbend” setting. but I’m not sure.

Aside from the note dropping an octave when you let go of the pad, the bending is very smooth and desirable. Works GREAT!
I guess we just have to get the note to not drop an octave and we may have a winner.

really happing about this development. You’re fantastic.

Thank you

Burr

( at December 3, 2018 4:07 am)

How about the one I sent via email? I think it will work better and I use pitch bend for that one instead of CC. I set Massive (I downloaded an eval copy) to +12 for pitch bend up an 0 for pitch bend down, so that it should never bend down.

Steve

( at December 3, 2018 6:18 am)

I used the file called “pitch-bend-quneo-example-2018-12-02” that you sent yesterday. I just tested it again with the same result.
1. I play a note then press one of the, pads.
2. When I let go of the pad, the note drops an octave below the note I played and stays there.
3. When I press the pad again, the note properly bends up to the desired location, and then if you let go again, it drops back to the low octave.

( at December 3, 2018 3:42 pm)

when I first press the pad, the note does properly bend from the note I played to the desired bend, so it is working great. Its just that when I let go of the pad, the note (that is still ringing) drops an octave.

( at December 3, 2018 3:44 pm)

Hi, I both posted the file and sent the file in email with the same name. Could you please make sure you test the file I sent in email?

( at December 3, 2018 6:41 pm)
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Hi,

After researching the details of the post more closely, it looks like you are using CC to control  pitch bend. I’ve created a new project file.

Most of the magic happens in translator 0.0.

It looks for the CC number and Channel and sets the maximum bend amount and scales it depending on the CC and Channel it came in on from your Quneo. It looks like Quneo is sending some CC’s on midi CH 2 and other osn MIDI CH 8.  The output is pitch bend on CH1 to the scaled amount.  Change the channel and or device if it is different for you.

 

You can adjust the distance between semitones in global variable gb.  Global variable ga is the maximum bend amount and is calculated based on which CC and MIDI Channel the MIDI message comes in on .

We take that amount and scale it from 0-127 for the cc value of the pad you are pushing and holding. Hopefully this will get you really close to what you want.

 

Regards,

Steve

 

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 31, Answers: 2423)
November 22, 2018 10:32 pm
Hi Steve. I havent looked at the attachment file you most recently made yet because I thought you wanted information from the log window to determine exactly what the Quneo is sending. So here is what I did. I opened the log window in my midi translator file and then played and held a note from the midi guitar. While it was sounding. I pushed down on the first four pads in my set up one by one (first one going up a half step, then the next one a whole step, the next one a minor third and the next a major third. I copied the information that appeared in the log window and pasted it to a text file that I’ve attached with this message. Please let me know if I did it right and if the Quneo is sending the info we need to get this done. Thank you sir Burr
( at November 25, 2018 3:57 am)

I don’t see any way to add the attachment for the comment I just posted. When I drag it into this field it just copies a link to where it is on my hard drive . /Users/burr/Documents/Text Documents/Storm King Documents/Students/Data from Midi Translator.rtf

( at November 25, 2018 4:02 am)

You will have to add attachment as an answer or email it to me. But before you do that, go ahead and test my latest project file. I took a much more detailed look at all of you posting and think I might have got it right this time.

I set up a single translator that looks at all of your CC and MIDI channels and then should trigger the right CC and scaling for each of your pads as you apply pressure. If that doesn’t work, either post the RTF as an answer, or copy and paste it as a comment or email it to me.
Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

( at November 25, 2018 7:22 am)
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Hi, this works but as Gabriel said, will not be perfect. The key  issue (no pun intended) is that channel pressure will only produce 128 steps (0-127) where as pitch bend produces 16383 steps. So you loose quite a bit of resolution when using channel pressure to control pitch bend. The other potential issue is how the receiving synth processes pitch bend messages and whether it can handled the MIDI message to change pitch bend range.

I tested this with my Alesis VI61.  I used the 16 pads on MIDI CH 15 for incoming notes, and  my keyboard to set the max range and also use channel pressure to send pitch bend messages (controlled on the same device) from MIDI CH 13.

I combined the outgoing note messages from CH15 with the resulting channel pressure messages on CH13  which were converted to pitch bend on output. Everything is being output to CH1 from both the sources.

The note pressed on CH13 both sets the max pitch bend amount and then applies the channel pressure message which is converted to pitch bend.

Even if you use a knob to control instead of channel pressure (as Gabriel suggests), you will lose some resolution since MIDI controllers generally only put out range of 128 and not 16384. You might however realize a better accuracy curve compared to the channel pressure curve that is provided by your Quneo. I’m just not sure how accurately you can apply key pressure and how sensitive or linear the device is for the key pressure you apply.

In my test, I used Strangler Lead Guitar in Ableton Live as I do not have Massive.

In the project 0.0 and 0.1 suppresses forwarding the notes from the pitch bend controller

The translator 0.2 sets the max pitch bend amount while 0.3 translates aftertouch to pitch bend depending on amount of pressure you are applying.

 

Of course you will need to adjust the project for your actual incoming and outgoing devices and MIDI channels you will be using. I just do not have any of the stuff you have to completely duplicate your environment.

 

Good luck!

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 31, Answers: 2423)
November 21, 2018 6:55 pm
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Hi Burr,

I hope I’m not being presumptuous to wonder about your approach to pitch-bending.  Since you’re a guitarist, I guess you’re looking for a MIDI generated whammy bar.  In that case, I think you may not be happy with the result once you’ve gotten as close as you can with your approach.

I think you would find it difficult to control the rate when bending away from the original pitch, and impossible to control the “return” rate when releasing the pressure on the pitch bend button(s), to return to the original pitch.  Beyond that, it seems somewhat unmusical to have to decide on the degree of bending you want – 1/4 step, 1/2 step, whole step, etc – before you actually initiate the bend.

It could be that you’re after an effect that’s different from a whammy bar effect, and, of course, that might be new and interesting.  But if you’re looking for a bluesy Stevie Ray Vaughan bend (etc. etc. etc) you might be better off using a fader on the Quneo.  The fader would default to center position, and you could select a wider or narrower range if necessary.

Maybe you could share a sound you’re trying to achieve, or describe the effect you ‘re looking for – in terms of contour of the bend over time, and distance too.

I have to say that I’ve designed and redesigned much of my hardware and software many times after putting lots of time into ideas that were doomed to fail because I hadn’t thought too deeply about the consequences of some of the design parameters.

Regards,

Gabriel

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 37, Answers: 171)
November 21, 2018 7:55 am
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OK, I have no way to test it because I don’t have your configuration but this should be pretty close. I only set up 2 pads. You will need to set up the rest. I assumed everything is on MIDI channel 2. If not you will have to modify to the correct MIDI channel.

I have 2 Presets

Bend Set

3 translators. All they do is adjust the global variable ga which will control the maximum bend amount

Key up sets back to 0 for next note

Pad 1 sets it to 700

Pad 2 sets it to 1500

Preset Bend Adjust – Does the actual bend depending on the pressure you are putting on a given pad. Since it is channel pressure it doesn’t matter which pad you press except that it has a rule that looks at the current value of ga and will not bend beyond that point.

Panic turns all notes off (if Massive supports it, If not you will need to send a string of individual note off keys. Of course if you press and release a key on you Triple Play, it will release that note only.

Set RPN Range. Set to maximum amount

 

Let me know if this works for you.

If not, I would probably need to set up my rig with a Launchkey MINI as my instrument and use my Alesis VI61 keys to control channel pressure. Hopefully, I will not need to reconfigure my studio and this should get you close enough to figure the rest out on your own.

Regards,

Steve

bome@sniz.biz

Independent Bome Programming Specialist

Bome Q&A moderator

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 31, Answers: 2423)
January 14, 2018 1:57 am

Hi Steve. Its been a bunch of months since we worked on this. I’ve been gigging and working so much that I had to stop trying to make this work. But now I’m back at it. The file you sent me above did not respond to the Quneo’s pressure pads (1 and 2). to get the pad that was transmitting cc 36 and the other pad that was transmitting cc 37 to interact with the two translators you created, I had to :
1. go into the bend set preset and go to the translator (first for Bend Set 1 and then for Bend set 2)
2. the outgoing stage of both these translators were set to none, so I set them to “Midi Message” and then “pitch Bend”. Then I set them to channel 2, and the bend amount to ga. This now caused the note to bend when pressing the two different pads. for pad 1, it would go up a half step (with the help of the first translator). When I pressed pad 2 it would go up a whole step (with the help of the second translator).
So all this is good. But its not bending up to the note as I apply more pressure like we want here. I just press the pad and when I push hard enough it just jumps to the maximum for that pad (either 700 or 1500. Remember, when I play a note and its ringing, the goal is to have the pressure pad move up toward the maximum value, but also to fall backwards if I decrease pressure. Much the way a note goes up when you bend a guitar string, but also goes back down when you let the string back down. I hope we can make this work. And thank you so much for you patience with me as I’m not an expert in any way with all the subtle nuances of Bome and all it can do.

Best

Burr

( at November 21, 2018 5:08 am)

Hi Burr,
Yes it has been a while. You should not change the translators for the pads. The pads are just to provide the channel pressure (pitch bend) for whatever the last note you played is. So you play a note with your instrument. You use the pad to provide a bend amount. The bend amount for that pad will be the the pressure you apply to that pad up to the maximum amount for that pad (but on the note from a different instrument and translator).

The triple play provides the notes and your Quneo provides channel pressure only which is translated by MT Pro into pitch bend. Maybe the Quneo is not applying proper channel pressure information. Please load and test the last file I sent you (before the modifcations and then copy and paste the log file so we can see what is happening.

Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist
bome@sniz.biz

( at November 21, 2018 6:31 am)

I was just thinking after looking what I sent you. I might need to scale the channel pressure messages up to pitch bend as channel messages are only range of 127 and pitch bend can be a range of up to 16384. I’ll take a close look at it tomorrow but I think the answer is in “scaling”. I put a tutorial together on that subject a while back if you want to look it up while you are waiting to hear back.

( at November 21, 2018 7:22 am)

Hi Steve.

I just sent a video file to you by way of WeTransfer. You will get an email from WeTransfer saying I’ve sent it to you. The video shows a brief explanation and demonstration of the Quneo in action with the current Midi Translator file I’ve been using. It has transposition in place for 12 of the pads, but with out the pressure pad design we are trying to get working. I explain it all in the video.

Burr

( at November 22, 2018 4:59 am)

OK, will watch for it.

Steve

( at November 22, 2018 5:18 am)

I was just reading up on the Quneo and it looks like it does not provide for aftertouch. So maybe you want the note to just trigger a timer to slowly bend the amount (simulating pitch bend) when pushing the pad? It this case since there will be different pitch bend distances depending on the pad you push, I’m unclear on the speed you would want to apply the bend and then release the bend. I had thought the Quneo was providing aftertouch messages that we are transposing to pitch bend but after reading, maybe I’m wrong. Or maybe I’m reading about the wrong device. Here is what I was reading.

https://files.keithmcmillen.com/downloads/quneo/QuNeo_FullManual_1.1.pdf

( at November 22, 2018 5:38 am)
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OK, let me make sure I have the right picture then. Is what I show below what you are trying to accomplish?

In the first round, you told me you were using CC that you want convert to pitch bend.

In the second round you told me you wanted to use aftertouch to convert to pitch bend.

Now I’m thinking you want each button to control a different maximum amount of bend and the pressure on that button to provide the real time range from 0-max.

 

So say button 1 can provide up to 700 bend and Button 2, up to 1500 bend and so forth.

If this is what you want. then we would set a global variable to the maximum based on the button pressed but not perform any pitch bend itself with button push, but let the aftertouch actual provide the bend information.

Please clarify.

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 31, Answers: 2423)
January 12, 2018 10:20 pm
Hi Steve. I’m sorry if my posts have been unclear. But It sounds like you’ve explained perfectly what I’m after. Your diagram is Awesome!! So to be clear, Yes I want button 1 to control pitch bend that will not exceed a half step (700) and then button 2 to control pitch bend that will not ended a whole step (1500), and then all the other buttons to move up to higher and higher intervals. And the way it unfolds is this: I play a note on the guitar that comes into the computer via the Triple play. While the note is still ringing I press the quneo pad 1. As I increase the pressure on the pad the note will start to bend heading up towards the half step limit. When I reach the maximum pressure for the pad (127) the note will top off at a half step (700). When I let go of the pad the note then drops back to the original note. If I play a note again and then reach for pad 2 on the quneo, the same thing will happen, but this time it will top off at a whole step (1500). Pad 3 would be a minor third, pad 4 a major third, etc….. So if this is clear, can you send me a file that does this? Thank you Steve for all your help Burr
( at January 14, 2018 12:29 am)
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Hi Steve my bome file that has all 12 semi-tones set in translators (I posted a picture of it with its log window in view on this stream a day or so ago) speaks to massive (which is in a track in ableton live) just fine.  And yes, the “midi from” portion of the track in live is set to receive from “Bome Midi Translator 1”.  So I have gotten my bome  file to talk to live and all the pads are moving the notes up to the pitch they are supposed to.  But for this new challenge of having the pressure pads “glide” up to their transposed spot depending on how hard you press the pad is not working with your file .  I sent you, in this discussion that picture of the bome file so you could see what the quneo is sending when I press, for example the first pad (the picture shows in the log window what the quneo sent when I pressed pressure pad number 1) In your file (pictured here in this post) you have in your incoming settings Raw midi sysex stuff.  but the quneo is not sending that, from what I can tell with the bome log.  so I don’t understand how those incoming settings are going to work when I press the pad on the quneo.  Plus you don’t even have any outgoing settings at all.  I tried to mirror the outgoing settings from my bome file to yours but that did nothing.  I figured you would need to see what the quneo was sending when I press one of the pads so you could determine what needs to go into the incoming and outgoing settings to make the behavior happen that we are after here. As you can see in the log window from the pic I previously posted, the quneo is sending on midi channel 2 and cc 36. the value goes up and down as I increase and decrease pressure on the pad.  So, how do we make your file take that information and respond the way we are hoping?   I’ve included three new screen shots: 1st one which is your file to make sure that that  is the file  I’m supposed to be working with. 2nd one which is a screen shot of my bome file, showing the incoming and outgoing settings for the first translator (with the bend set to 700 to give us movement of a half step up) and the 3rd screen shot which is again my bome file with the project default midi input, and output port settings.  As always thank you very much for your time and help.

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 1, Answers: 9)
January 12, 2018 9:03 pm
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Hi Steve

I downloaded the file you posted in the chat board and have been trying to make it work. Not sure how to make your file work with my gear.  I’ve included a screen shot of Bome’s log window and in it is the midi stream that results when I press the first pad on the quneo.  this is in my bome file so you can see on the right all the settings that are working for the quneo to talk to notes and bend them.   But when I open your file I can’t seem to get the bending to happen like we’ve discussed.  If I start changing things around to be like my file then I can cause a bend to happen (but not the new way we are trying for here. ) I thought if I showed you with the screen shot, what the quneo is sending then maybe you could tell me how to set it up to get the job done.

Thanks again Steve

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 1, Answers: 9)
January 11, 2018 5:04 am

Is Massive set to monitor Bome MIDI Translator virtual output? If not, you need to change your default routing to the port Massive is looking for as input?

( at January 11, 2018 3:52 pm)
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Actually, I found a keyboard that I have that has channel aftertouch.  I’ve made a short sample.

For my aliases Queno is my Launch Control and Fishman Triple Play is my VI 61 keyboard

I only set 2 pitch bend amounts.

For output I sent to my Microsoft Wavetable Synth

 

Since I use channel pressure which only puts output 0-127, I shifted the values to the left by 7 bits to give me the scaling I need.

I also used Note Off message to release pitch bend.

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 31, Answers: 2423)
December 29, 2017 8:47 pm
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Something like this should work. I only changed Bend 1 and Bend 2 and disabled the other translators.  As you will see instead of using the controllers to generate the pitch bend, they each just set the variable “ga” to the maximum pitch bend amount but they do nothing else.

You will either use translator 1 (Polyphonic Aftertouch to Bend) or translator 2 (Channel Aftertouch to Bend) but not both depending on the type of aftertouch your instrument supports).  When applying pressure you can control the bend amount (up to the maximum) by the amount of pressure you apply. In rules, I look at the value of ga and make sure we do not go over the maximum bend amount).

I really have no way to test this since I don’t have any controllers with aftertouch support.

So essentially the CC’s set the maximum bend amount ga and then the actual pressure you apply to keys controls the pitch bend.

Now if you want the bend time to be at a constant interval as opposed to key pressure, then this would have to be done with a timer instead of key pressure, but I don’t think that is what you are asking.

You would have the timer send out pitch bend commands with varying amounts at certain intervals.  If this what you want, we can explore this as a separate option but let’s hold off since I think you are really looking to control pitch bend with aftertouch.

Steve

bome@sniz.biz

Independent Bome Programming Specialist

Bome Q&A moderator

 

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 31, Answers: 2423)
December 29, 2017 8:01 pm
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Hi everyone. Hi Steve. I got the Bome software to properly talk to Ableton and Massive and do the transposing that I wanted it to do. Its working great. Thank you so much for you amazing help.  I attached the file so you can see how I got it done.  Question:  As you know the Quneo can send pressure info on each of its pressure pads.  Can you tell me how to adjust the file I attached so that each of the translators in the bome file receives the pressure information sent by the pad assigned to it and moves  the note to its desired pitch gradually ?  The way it is now, when you press on any of the pads the note is transposed  right to the desired change.  How do I make it so as you  increase the pressure on the pad  the note will  move up to its desired transposition?

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 1, Answers: 9)
December 29, 2017 4:54 am

Hi, I’ll take a look at it tomorrow morning. We should be able to use polyphonic aftertouch if the instrument supports it. Many support midi instruments support only channel pressure aftertouch only so not sure. Some support neither. Do you know if it supports either type of aftertouch and if so which?

Polyphonic aftertouch is unique to each note, while channel aftertouch is not.

( at December 29, 2017 6:44 am)
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So here is an updated project file.

I have set up the Following Aliases. You will be prompted to assign these to actual devices the first time you open it.

Fishman Triple Play – Assign this to your MIDI guitar (however it shows up on your system)

Ableton Massive Track – Assign this to Bome MIDI Translator Virtual Port 1

Quneo – Assign this to your Quneo device (however it shows up)

I’ve set up on route from the Triple Play to Ableton (Massive ->  Bome MIDI Translator 1)

I set up translators to translate messages from your Quneo to send pitch bend to Ableton (Massive – BMT1)

You will need to assign the start bend and end bend translator inputs to the messages your Quneo sends.

In Ableton Live under MIDI settings you will need to set up Bome MIDI Translator 1 as a “Track” Input

In Ableton Live you need to have input of your Massive Track also to Bome MIDI Translator One

This should do it for you.

Let me know if you have any further questions

Steve

bome@sniz.biz

Independent Bome Programming Specialist

Bome Q&A moderator

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 31, Answers: 2423)
December 8, 2017 10:41 pm

The real only open switch here is understanding the Pitch Bend Range that Massive will support. I haven’t seen any synths recently that can pitch bend up to a whole octave. Typically it is only 2-3 semitones.

( at December 8, 2017 11:05 pm)
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Hi everyone and thank you for your help.  It looks like all the attachments here require Bome.  I don’t have it.  is there a free version?  Its pretty expensive, especially if I don’t even know if it can do my request yet.

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 1, Answers: 9)
December 3, 2017 3:25 am

You can download an evaluation copy and it is free for testing. It is fully functional but will time out after 20 minutes of use.

https://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator

Steve
bome@sniz.biz
Independent Bome Programming Specialist
Bome Q&A moderator

( at December 3, 2017 3:39 am)
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Thanks, Gabriel, it looks like your solution has different pitch bend value depending on incoming note. I’ll have to play with it a bit and see what it sounds like.

 

I’m posting an update to the project I did yesterday. Now it is closer to what I think Burr is looking for.

In this version I’m using the first pad on my Novation Launchkey as a pitch bend.  I also now properly process note off messages.

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 31, Answers: 2423)
December 1, 2017 3:02 pm

Hi and thank you again for helping me. This will make for a great video showcasing Bome if I can just figure it out. I’ve tried opening all of these attachments and can’t seem to make any progress getting anything to happen. I ultimately will be bending notes being played from Massive inside ableton. But I first tried just opening up Massive as a stand alone and then tried the three files in this post stream. nothing happened. remember I’m on a mambook pro and am using the Fishman Triple Play Midi guitar to trigger the notes. nothing I did in the midi input or output settings seemed to get any bending to happen . I think I’m just not setting up the midi ins and outs right but I’ve tried and tried. I tried reading the set up info in the manual but I’m not sure about a bunch of stuff. Like the select midi devices that sometimes comes up when you open the program. I don’t know what to put in those fields (BMT IN2, BMT out 1, don’t know what that is. PedalPiano3.0 ? Rem 61 in ? Pro 24 MIDI? don’t know what any of that is. Furthermore when I close the “select MIDI Devices” I don’t see any way to reopen it. I’m so sorry for my ignorance. I’m just trying to figure all this out.

( at December 8, 2017 9:27 pm)

I mean I can figure that “BMT” means bome midi translator, but I don’t quite know what to do with it.

( at December 8, 2017 9:30 pm)

So If I have a track inside ableton with massive in it and I want to trigger the notes with the Fishman triple play, then I will need to select “fishman Triple Play” as the input type for that track (like I always have). but how do I get the BMT to target just that track and receive cc commands from the Quneo to create bending activity for just that track ?

( at December 8, 2017 9:34 pm)

What is the MIDI source that send the MIDI notes to Massive? The path should look something like the below
–>Midi Source (notes) ———————-> Bome MIDI Translator -> Massive -> Music output
—————>Midi Source (controller to send pitch bend ^
In this configuration you will have two inputs, one from your MIDI Notes source and the other from your controller. MT Pro will need to be set up to monitor both inputs and then to send output to a Virtual MIDI Port such as BMT 1 which is the input to Massive which sends out audio sounds (either directly if stand alone or through the Ableton Engine if as a VST.

Is this an accurate depiction of what you are trying to do? Essentially you are merging two MIDI streams into massive. At least this is what I think you are trying to do. If not, maybe you should clarify further.

( at December 8, 2017 9:52 pm)

Hi, looks like our message crossed paths.
You need to feed Both Triple play and Quneo into Bome MIDI Translator. The translator should just pass notes through with a route from Triple Play to Bome MIDI Translator 1 output. The feed from Queno will be set up to send pitch bend messages and send to the same output stream. You don’t add routes for this, you use translators to do the work. Then in Ableton, you want to set up Bome MIDI translator 1 as your MIDI input for performance and feed that to the input of your Massive plugin.

I can modify the project file with Aliases created for you. Once you assign the alias names to your actual physical instruments, you should be all set. Does this make sense to you?

( at December 8, 2017 10:00 pm)

Hi
I’ve been trying to get BMT to just successfully talk to one track in Live and so this is what I did. I opened an new project in BMT (with no Translators present) I set the track in Live to take midi from “Bome Midi Translator 1”. Then I checked the box in BMT’s midi input for “Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar” Then I checked the box in the midi output (of BMT) for “Bome MIDI Translator 1 virtual out”. but no sound or activity in the track in live. but If I go to the midi router in BMT and link “Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar” on the left to either “bome midi translator 1 virtual out”, or “Bome Virtual Port 1”, then I see in Live activity in the track and hear sound. so I guess you have to have the midi router involved to make the connection? I thought it was just for midi through activity which implies a connection that will not participate in any translation behaviors.

( at December 9, 2017 9:34 pm)

Yes, any connection you make by routing will be a thru connection from the input to the output of BMT. However if you have any translators with “swallow” checked, that particular message will not go through if the translator outgoing action fires. If it doesn’t fire, then the MIDI message will still go through.
For your other controller, you probably don’t want a thru connection (pitch bend) because you will want the translators to process all incoming messages.

( at December 9, 2017 9:45 pm)

Hi again

Ok thank you. And yes, please send me the file with the aliases as you described. here the CCs Quneo will be sending (on CC message for each of 12 pads). Next to their CC message is their desired transposition effect.

Pad 1, Channel 2, CC 36 move the note up a half step
Pad 2 Channel 2, CC 37 move the note up a whole step
Pad 3 Channel 2, CC 38 move the note up a minor 3rd
Pad 4 Channel 2 CC 39 move the note up an major 3rd
Pad 5 Channel 2 CC 55 move the note up a fourth
Pad 6 Channel 8 CC 46 move the note up a #4th
Pad 7 Channel 8 CC 47 move the note up a fifth
Pad 8 Channel 8 CC 49 move the note up a # fifth
Pad 9 Channel 8 CC 64 move the note up a sixth
Pad 10 Channel 8 CC 65 move the note up a flat 7th
Pad 11 Channel 8 CC 66 move the note up a perfect 7th
Pad 12 Channel 8 CC 67 move the note up a perfect octave
Please include the proper setting up procedure as well so BMT will hear the Midi Guitar and the Quneo and talk to the track in Live.
You’re awesome. thank you so much for all this help

( at December 9, 2017 9:53 pm)

I sent the file yesterday, you will have to create all of your translators but the aliases and routes are set up.

https://www.bome.com/wp-content/uploads/cma_attachments/1512769290292_Pitch_Bend_Demo-2017-12-08.bmtp

( at December 9, 2017 10:07 pm)

Also the pitch bend amount will be a number but I don’t know the number. It will depend on how you have set the pitch bend range in Massive. I think you will need to experiment with the numbers after setting up Massive to determine the output number for each PAD

( at December 9, 2017 10:20 pm)
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OOPS…  forgot the code.  Here it is

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 37, Answers: 171)
December 1, 2017 8:48 am
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Another approach might be to incorporate something like the attached code.  It’s pretty dumb, but also pretty direct.  You’d send the relevant pitchbend message for each desired transposition when you press one or the other Quneo pad

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 37, Answers: 171)
December 1, 2017 8:46 am
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Hi,

Bome MIDI Translator has the capability to send Pitch Bend message. The amount of bend usually depends on

  1. The synthesizer used and it’s capabilities
  2. The Pitch Bend Range RPN Parameter

I’ve attached a simple demo file. I use the Escape key to set the pitch bend rage using a raw RPN message.

Then if you hit any note, it will play and after 500ms bend up to maximum value.

After another 500ms, the bend returns

Right now I don’t have note off message so if you hit ESC it in addition to RPN message it sends all notes off message.

I tested with Microsoft Wavetable Synth and the RPN message didn’t seem to have any effect for that virtual synth.

 

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Posted by (Q&A Forum: 31, Answers: 2423)
December 1, 2017 5:25 am