I have an issue problem of which I have no clue what's going on. Normally I'd troubleshoot myself but I have a gig next Saturday and I would love to be have this problem resolved beforehand.
I have recently rewritten my MT project that handles my MIDI setup during live gigs. It basically handles all patch changes, volume controllers, note sends and LED feedback between my two keyboards and MIDI control surface.
I always develop with MTpro running on a laptop. All MIDI traffic goes through an integrated USB interface of the control surface except the MIDI out of keyboards #2 which comes in on the Bomebox DIN
All port are individually accesible.
All works exactly as should when the Bomebox is in router mode and my laptop handles the MT project. However shit hits the fan when transferring the project to the Bomebox. MASSIVE latency, hung notes etc. And most peculiar - the web applications acts all weird. Its super unresponsive and everything takes minutes to load. Without the project its instant. Last night at band practice it appeared to by itself unload my project and forget all assigned aliases. It also acts funny on power supply and I sometimes have problems getting it to turn on.
Afterwards I switched to the setup with MTpro running on my laptop and all worked fine again. Including the BB.
What is causing this extreme behaviour - where should I start looking?
Hi, are you running WiFi? This is a long shot but see if you can turn it off to see if the latency clears. Maybe if there is a lot of WiFi noise the BomeBox is trying to handle the extranous WiFi traffic that is not meant for it. Also, I occasionally get something similar but usually it clears up when I power cycle my BomeBox and one of USB keyboards that draws power from the BomeBox at the same time.
Just a few suggestions, but I’ve also alerted Florian in case he has some other ideas.
Thanks for the help. The Wi-Fi is indeed turned on although by default I am not using it for anything but changing the settings of the bomebox. I do use it for MIDI data when running MT in the laptop and then it works well. That route I automatically removed when I load my MT project on the bomebox.
We practice in the middle of nowhere – it could be my band members smart phones trying to connect but then I would definitely expect similar problems when the Bomebox is functioning only as a router. But that’s clearly not the case.
Hi, first of all, apologies for this experience! We have never heard of such symptoms, so for now I can only guess what’s happening.
In general, depending on the type of your project, it is possible (though unlikely) that it causes slightly higher CPU load, which then (temporarily) overloads the power supply. Unsuitable power supplies are the #1 cause for BomeBox problems. Note that WiFi also draws a bit power when active. As a rule of thumb, the more amps a micro USB power supply has, the more stable it will provide power to the BomeBox. The most stable power supply (also in mechanical terms) is using a Power-over-Ethernet switch or injector. The latter are available for little more than $20.
Still, flaky power does not seem to explain your symptoms well. It rather seems like CPU overload. Apart from a bug in the firmware (which I wouldn’t assume at this point), I can only think of some kind of MIDI feedback or infinite loop in your MT Pro project. Could you please attach it in this forum and list which devices are connected to the BomeBox? Hopefully we can reproduce it in our office.
Thanks for the feedback – I’ve just ordered a 48V PoE Injector – if only for the solid feel of connection vs micro-USB (and plugging in a UTP cable during live setup looks cool).
I think I have the latest firmware – at least something 1.3.x – the one that supports QWERTY input.
Currently my gear is bagged – going to setup this evening, download that specific MT project from my Bomebox and I’ll share it here.
MIDI Setup:
1. Bomebox hosts MT Project.
Nord Lead 2x OUT -> Bomebox DIN IN
Nord Stage EX OUT -> BCF2000 DIN IN
BCF2000 USB Bomebox USB
BCF2000 DIN OUT #1 -> Nord Lead 2x IN
BCF2000 DIN OUT #2 -> Nord Stage 2x IN
2. Laptop hosts MT Project.
Exactly the same except:
BCF2000 USB Laptop USB
Nord Lead 2x OUT -> Bomebox DIN IN -> WiFi -> Laptop
Hi, I’ve attached a few diagrams to see if I got it right. Please confirm.
How do you have your MIDI routing (both within BomeBox and within your MT Project file). The reason I ask is if you are not careful in this configuration, there might be possibility of some MIDI loops.
On you Nord Products (which I think can support sending and receiving through multiple MIDI channels, what channels to you have configured?
And sorry, I think you said your Nord State EX is Stage not Stage 2
Finally I think you said Scenario 2 is working but note Scenario 1?
In Scenario 2, are you running project files on both BomeBox and Laptop, just Laptop, or just BomeBox? On the device not running a project file, how are your MIDI routes set up?
Steve Caldwell
Bome Q and A Moderator and
Independent Bome Consultant/Specialist bome@sniz.biz
Diagram looks right – only that BCF2000 Bomebox is bidirectional. (Which you mentioned in the second comment). I can access all the BCF’s outputs its own input though MT. Its works sort of like a MIDI interface with 3 ins and 2 outs.
No routing in MT project in both scenarios. Bomebox only has the WiFi routing (extends 2x to laptop). and only in scenario 2 (Bomebox hosts project). Everything is routed by translators.
The MT project is only running on the laptop in scenario 2 and on BB in scenario 1.
It’s indeed scenario 1 that behaves weird.
I’m going to setup my gear now and upload that project
I forgot the MIDI channels :
NSeX (a classic one indeed): 13 to 16 OUT, 5 to 10 IN
NL2x 1 to 4 IN and OUT
BCF2000 16 IN/OUT (except Faders which send on the Nord’s instrument channels)
But everything is sorted by the input ports of my translators – and no MIDI goes direct through without passing a translator.
OK, once you send the file, could you do a screenshot of BomeBox routing after starting your project file there (for scenario 1)?
So as it looks, you never send performance (keyboard data from your Stage to your Lead) but you can do the opposite if using translators (Lead to Stage)
BCF is actually just used as aux control surface. If I remember it will even allow motorized fader control from your keyboards if you desire and perhaps LED updates.
Bomebox routing is empty.
Actually I just uploaded a version of my MT project with the WiFi port disabled. I also disabled BUT Virtual MIDI port ( it isn’t used anywhere – i use it seperately for my DAW). Seems to be working for now.
Can these ports cause the aforementioned behaviour?
About the project – the BCF sends midi cc that Bome translates into patch changes for the keyboards. It also acts as a MIDI mixer for my patches volumes and I use it to assign master slave configurations. All of this is processed by my project which then returns corresponding LED signals to keep me updated on what is controlling what
Well at first glance things look OK but it might take a while to figure this project out completely. I guess the first thing I would ask is if the BCF2000 DIN #2 port is a MIDI thru port? If so, everything toing in DIN from your NS will loop right back to it and although you might not be doing anything with the MIDI coming in on that channel, it may slow things down. I would have the same question on the NS, whether it is configured as MIDI thru? If they both are then you might have a MIDI loop going on here, but I suspect not if it works OK in scenario 2. I assume when you have the project running on the BomeBox, you don’t see any routes since all routing is being handled by translators, right?
Do you have the BomeBox powered by the same power source in both Scenarios 1 and 2?
I’ll continue to poke at it to see if I can uncover any anomalies.
Just an observation, I noticed you are explicitly call out inputs and outputs at the translator level which is fine, however may be more difficult to manage over the long run. I usually manage my devices by preset, that way I can set the defaults under the preset for the predominant devices there and then if there are 1-2 translators under that preset that need to be different, I can either put them under a different preset or override them at the translator level. For me if I have 310 translators (as you do), it is easier to manage changing default ports for 23 presets than for 310 translators.
Nice project! If you are using same power source for both scenarios, I would suspect either a MIDI loop between the BCF and NS or a misbehaving USB connection from the BCF.
I have a Alesis Q88 with USB in my config and once in a while I suspect it causes me similar issues as you are reporting. I have to clear by recycling power on BomeBox after cutting power to the Q88 and then re-powering the Q88. It has only happened to me a few times but it is really frustrating when it happens.
If you are routing BCF commands through the project file to control NSEX, maybe next time it happens, disconnect one of the MIDI DIN port from the NS to the BCF to see if the problem clears. Obviously you will not be able to update faders and LED from the NS2 but you should till be able to get PCs to both of your boards.
Also, I assume the BCF is exposing the NS and NL as separate devices through the USB interface (looking at your project file). If not, I would be quite confused.
Problem not resolved. I think it occurs when something connects through ethernet or WiFi. After unloading and reloading it works ok for a while. I’m not sure what triggers it exactly but I think it has to do with my laptop connecting with it.
I just updated firmware to 1.3.1 from 1.3.0.
I’ve included an image of BCF2000 routing – there are no through ports in this setting.
The bomebox is always powered by the same micro-USB. Going to try PoE tonight though.
I also included an image of an error I see in the Bomebox log after the problem starts. It’s included in the other image I attached.
Ignore the port not found messages since my BCF was plugged into my laptop at that point.
The UDP_MIDI errors look like a network errors. Did your project file have any ports configured as aliases to Bome MIDI network? Otherwise I assume you were running the configuration more like Scenario 2 which you said was working OK.
Perhaps at one point – at least not now. I do see my laptop but it says ‘not used anywhere in project’.
Problem still persists – always a couple minutes after starting the project.
– PoE works great but does not resolve the problem
– I’ve disconnected my laptop from the Bomebox – problem still persists
– Fixed a misassigned port (2x to BCF2000[2]) but it did not fix the problem.
Concerning the aliases – I do have that alias “NL DIN OUT” assigned to Bome Network on my laptop project. But on the Bomebox that alias is properly assigned to Bomebox DIN.
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