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kaoss pad - bomes - ableton 5

General discussion about MIDI Translator

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alexgodoy
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kaoss pad - bomes - ableton 5

Post by alexgodoy » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:15 am

hello!
i apologise if this is a stupid question but:

i have a kaoss pad i am using with ableton 5. what i would like to do is be able to midi map the x/y pad to effect parameters and this is easy through ableton's mapping thing. however i would also like to make it so the program change buttons (which send program change midi) would allow me to change the midi cc of the x/y axis' and therefore allow the different program buttons to function as presets and change which vst/effect i control with the pad.

i THINK this is possible through bome's midi translator (unless i have misunderstood!) by setting the midi values of the program buttons to change the preset within bome's, and then have each preset convert the cc of the x/y axis to a different one for each corresponding program button.

is this possible? and if so how!?

thanks for your time!

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florian
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Post by florian » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:09 pm

Hi,

no stupid question at all!

You can easily do this with MT. Check out some of the examples in the forums, and give it a try. If you can't get it to work, let us know here in the forum which controller MIDI messages are sent by the X/Y controls, and which messages are sent by the program change buttons.

Thanks!
Florian

alexgodoy
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Post by alexgodoy » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:02 pm

thanks for the quick reply!
i will get working and researching and see what i can do!

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Post by alexgodoy » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:55 pm

ok... pleaseeeeeeeeeee help!
i have been trying to do this solidly since the last reply.

i have worked out a way to do it (in theory)

each of the 8 preset buttons sends out different program change midi data so i have set bomes to translate these into a preset change within bomes.
then i can reassign the cc channel from each axis of the touch pad to seperate cc channels unique to each preset within bomes. this means each bomes preset can control unique midi cc channels and therefore seperate parameters without effecting the other presets which havent been selected.

however...
whilst this is dandy in theory i seem to be horrendously bad at reassigning each cc channel within bomes because i dont know how to write them out off the top of my head so i need to keep referencing by manualling changing the cc values within the kaoss pad, and then i keep getting them mixed up and confused. i have tried writing a spreadsheet to just keep it written down but i still f*ck up.

so... is there ANY way someone who is a veteran at this and could do it easily (if anyone can) could possibly write it out for me... :oops: or alternatively explain an easy way to do it through the program, or else a good systematic approach or even a way of knowing how to write out any given cc channel within bomes without having to reference the kaoss pad. it is using midi channel 16 if thats any help...

but then ALSO:

ableton isnt actually using the midi messages transmitted by bomes at all (via midi yoke)!!!! i have tested this by turning of abletons tracking and syncing of the kaoss input and leaving the midi input through midi yoke on. ableton receives them but does not use them for midi mapping...

gosh!
sorry about that!

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florian
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Post by florian » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:07 am

Hi,

you're quite close, actually! The idea of changing presets in response to the program change is good - this is the way to go with Midi Translator Classic. With the Pro version, one MT preset would be enough and you can work with variables.

Anyway, the general way to go is this:
1) create one preset in MT that works fine. Make sure that you do not check "output both incoming and outgoing MIDI message" in the Outgoing tab.

2) Select MIDI Yoke as MIDI Out in MT

3) select MIDI Yoke as MIDI IN and track in Ableton Live.

4) Use Midi Translator's visual help to verify correct working:
- the tray icon: left light means incoming message received, middle light: a translation is done, right light: an outgoing action is executed
- the LED panel: you should see "MIDI IN", "translating", "MIDI OUT"
- the log (Options|Log Window)

5) Once this is working, you can use the Preset|Duplicate function. Rename the preset to something meaningful and edit the new configuration.

If you still can't get Live to receive the MIDI messages, check out this thread: http://www.bome.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1115

We don't have a Kaoss pad here, so I cannot help unless you tell us exactly which MIDI messages are coming from the kaoss pad, and to which MIDI messages you want to translate them for Live. You can use the "capture MIDI" function in Midi Translator, or the tool Send SX to get the kaoss pad messages.

THanks,
Florian

chelfyn
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Post by chelfyn » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:34 am

I own a couple fo KAOSS pads, both out on loan - once I get them back I'll write a translator and post it up.

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Post by chelfyn » Wed May 02, 2007 8:51 am

Right, my pads came back last night and I got them up and running and worked out what your problem is.

first of all, download the manual here:
http://www.korg.co.uk/korg2003/download ... sPadOM.pdf

this will help a little :)

I think your problem may lie in the fact that the kaoss pads can simultaneously output several data streams, two types on the 2 axis, 3 on the Y, one on the diagonal and pad on/off messages.

lets look at each case - it appears that the kaoss pads sensitivity is 8 bits (256 discrete values) in each axis. Midi controllers however, are 7 bit values (128 values). The 2 primary axes deal with this is different ways:

X-Axis
The X axis outputs 2 different controllers. The first, and probably most useful, is pitchbend. This is Midi's rare joy, an accepted 14-bit parameter. This is easy to map on to any parameter directly in ableton, but there's only one, which defeats the 6-preset goal you're going for. To turn this on/off, go into MIDI mode by holding down the 6 buttons simultaneously, and then toggle it with the '1' button (which will light when active). after 10 seconds the pad will drop back into normal mode.

the second X-axis output is a standard 7-bit midi controller(cc#12), so this will be easy to remap through MTPro to another cc#. To turn it on/off, go into MIDI mode and toggle with '5'. For the situation you describe I would sacrifice 1 bit of accuracy for ease of use, so turn off pitchbend (1) and turn on cc#12 (5).

Y-axis.

The Y-axis handles it's extra bit differently. it output one 7-bit control (cc#02) for the lower half of the pad, and another (cc#01) for the upper half. you can turn these on/off with '3' and '2' respectively when in MIDI mode. This can be really useful, allowing you to control 3 parameters easily rather than 2.

The easy cop out is provided with a single 7-bit cc covering the whole range, cc#13, and that's toggled by pad '6' in MIDI mode.

The Diagonal axis is on cc#93 (pad 4) and we probably want this off.

So, to set up for your idea, go to MIDI mode and make sure the first four pads are off, and 5 & 6 are lit. You can then use MTPro to remap cc#12 & cc#13 to other values.

Great idea by the way - my next step after posting this is to knock up the 6 MTPro presets I'll need. I've just realised my job is complicated by the fact that I've got 2 Kaoss pads and I can't resist the challenge of getting them both running like this... noo...I must resist wasting time with tech when should be making music.... arghhhhh

I hope this has helped!

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