Convert LCD disply meter to LCD meter

Hi again,

Well i think i may have already asked all the dumb questions..thx for y'alls patience .

Its track meter time. I have the meters working kinda. The sender expects an LCD, so there is no " turn leds off command " being sent. So my meters {leds} on the recieving end go up and light but then just stay on. phew.

I then used a translator to use the same LCD on command to send an all leds off command {with various delays} and that kinda works but the meter reacts "choppily" as u would expect because it clearing all the leds. Man i hope i make sense to u! See info at end.

So i figure i need to skip maybe every 2 or three LCD on commands and send less ALL LEDS OFF offs? How would i accomplish this in bomes? i tried making rules but i just kept getting further and further away. Even if i do this i still suspect the meter wouldnt look "normal".

So then i figured..a real novel here.. maybe i would have to send both all lcds off AND..this is really where my brain goes burp..some "decending" led light ons delayed after the signal light ons to simulate the smooth fall of a normal meter. But then i wonder about usable midi bandwidth with all 8 meters goin.

Here are the specs...

What is being sent....I think i can handle the y =track#

D0 yx : update VU meter, y=track, x=0..d=volume, e=clip on, f=clip off

------------

What i need to recieve....

Format: a0 0y sv

y : channel (0..7)

s : side (left/right)
s = 0 : side = left
s = 1 : side = right
I dont have a master fader on the recieving end so i think i can skip the "s" variable

v : value (0..c)

v = c : signal >= 0dB; red (clip)
v = b : signal >= -2dB; yellow
v = a : signal >= -4dB; yellow
v = 9 : signal >= -6dB; yellow
v = 8 : signal >= -8dB; green
v = 7 : signal >= -10dB; green
v = 6 : signal >= -14dB; green
v = 5 : signal >= -20dB; green
v = 4 : signal >= -30dB; green
v = 3 : signal >= -40dB; green
v = 2 : signal >= -50dB; green
v = 1 : signal >= -60dB; green
v = 0 : signal < -60dB; all leds off



I have this whole project functioning beautifully thanks to BMTP and DA and florian..just 3 probs left. This meters..and the 2 sys ex conversions of the main dispay and the TC 7segment display.

Here is what i have.... ALL MCU features implemented..save those 3 mentioned

Any help appreciated as always,

Guido

Hey Guido

It's been a busy weekend, but I haven't missed this. I gotta go to the good son thing for Mother's Day, but tonight or tomorrow night I should have an answer for you.

Jared

Hi,
Thx for the update!

May God bless u for making ur Mother happy!^^
Thanks for ur help.Take your time.

Guido

Hey Guido

Okay, so since I don't have any hardware in front of me that even remotely resembles what you're doing I'm going to take some shots in the dark and I'm going to need your input.

When the LED values come INTO BMT from MCU, and the meter stops getting sent (hits 0, or is turned off or for whatever reason), does MCU send a 00 message, or does it just stop sending anything? If it just stops then we can try and set some timers to tell the HUI to turn off when the signals stop, it's just going to be a little complex. I'll help out, for sure, but I just want to make sure that's how this is interacting.

Alternatively, is there a common final message that's sent for any fader once they stop? So, maybe an "off" message gets sent that is a different value than we'd expect? Does that make any sense whatsoever?

What I'd recommend doing is copying a single Vpot LED translator into a new preset and deactivating the other two presets. Open up the log window and watch what happens. If, when the track stops playing and the fader descends, there's a strange Off message being sent we can try and figure it out. OR, if it just stops altogether we can figure that out as well. make sense?

Hi,

thx jared.

First let me say that as far as order of importance , i dont want to "wear out my welcome" on the meter issue. I mean i have been reading alot of posts on this forum,and i now realize how much "hand holding" u guys have been doing for me. So if the meters look like they will take too much of your time, i would rather get to the Sys Ex disply because its crucial.

If i can get em both..all the better..if its one oe the other, ill take the Sys ex..If u think we you have time for both ..read on..if not let me know, and we will get to the Sys Ex pls. Either way this level of customer support is off the charts.
-----------------------------------------

Heres the deal..the mcu doesnt send an off..it just stops sending.. i think its because its expecting an lcd.

"If it just stops then we can try and set some timers to tell the HUI to turn off when the signals stop, it's just going to be a little complex. I'll help out, for sure, but I just want to make sure that's how this is interacting"


thats exactly what i was thinking. timers..its starting to makes sense now.. i have a timer set to trigger a few all leds off or something. But then what would trigger the timer to start and stop..hmmm.
To be clear, the sender is expecting an lcd and my meters are 24 segment leds. I am going to ask a guy who has a kit he sells that turns a "gutted " mackie d8b digital audio board into 3 mcus. 24 faders...but no audio. But he must have faced this issue and i hope he will share his stratagy.

They almost work now with this

Translator 1.89: Ch 1 Meters
Options: disabled, stop=false
Incoming: MIDI D0 pp
Rules:
pp=pp-2
Outgoing: MIDI a0 00 pp

Translator 1.90: Ch 1 Meters Off
Options: disabled, stop=false
Incoming: MIDI D0 pp
Outgoing: MIDI a0 00 00, delay:25millisec

Sometimes it leaves lights on and when its sending offs it seems like the meters is "cuttin in and out"

EDIT one more thing..in the mcu spec there is no send meter off command that i see.

"What I'd recommend doing is copying a single Vpot LED translator into a new preset and deactivating the other two presets. Open up the log window and watch what happens. If, when the track stops playing and the fader descends, there's a strange Off message being sent we can try and figure it out. OR, if it just stops altogether we can figure that out as well. make sense?"

Yes

Thanks Jared
Guido

Seriously dude, no worries. You bought a product and Florian would fly across the Atlantic and have very stern words for me that would make me cry if I didn't help everyone out. Besides, this stuff is fun. It makes me better at what I like doing.

The Sysex is easy, cause you're just going to send it on its own protocol. Sysex as text isn't very hard.

For what you're doing, though, with meters is going to require a little more nuance. The meter is cutting in and out because it's getting an off signal every 25ms, regardless of what's going on.

So instead, is there a MIDI message that gets sent when the track stops playing? OR can we assign a global variable to whether or not a track is playing, pending you exclusively use your controller to set that? If so then this would be easy. Before I spit out code, though, let me know if there's a MIDI message that the track stops playing being sent back to BMT.

DvlsAdvct wrote: So instead, is there a MIDI message that gets sent when the track stops playing? OR can we assign a global variable to whether or not a track is playing, pending you exclusively use your controller to set that? If so then this would be easy. Before I spit out code, though, let me know if there's a MIDI message that the track stops playing being sent back to BMT.

Thx!

I have a feelin i may have to make a video for u to see. First i gotta find out how to do that! Its not just on stop..its hard to explain. If eg. i take out the "all lights off" translator, as soon as the signal hits the corresponding LEd ,it stays on..So then when u get to the top they are all on and stay on. I will do some more sniffing on what is being sent. I also just now had a "brainstorm". I used to use Logic for years,,now on PC... and they have good HUI support.Its on my old OS9 mac..im all hooked up midi wise tho. I believe my boards meters are the same 24 led type as the HW hui. ill hook it up and see what they send and maybe we can replicate with BMT.
Ill do both by tommorow nite.
Thx man!

btw..As an a real old midi veteran, I started usin midi in 86..im 58... I gotta say..that u dj guys are usin this stuff deeper than the bigger concert rigs of yore! Cool stuff.

Guido

Well, there's MUCH easier access to MIDI these days. Back when you were using it (and I was but a wee lad) you needed a computer science degree to even understand how to make things happen. Now you just need a little bit of time and some instruction.

Well, there are still options without insane math. Are you planning on doing all of your track triggering with the controller, and not use the software at all? If that's the case I can do this really easily. If you're going to want both then you need to find out whether or not your software sends outs at all, like whether or not the track is playing. The best way to find that out is to create a preset where the only translator is reading what is being sent FROM the software TO BMT, and see what happens when you start and stop tracks. You can do this with a series of local variables (like a translator that just takes in pp qq rr) OR you can set the only command to be Play, and hopefully your software handles bi-directional MIDI without any specific protocols. :p

Yay crazy stuff.

DELETED For clarity^^

Yo!

i think i got it! the sender sends like this...

D0 xy...y=0 to E or 15dec any thing between 0 and 15dec is track one...between 16dec and 31dec is track 2 and so forth. That had something to do with the weird meters. This is what i have to seperate the tracks...

Translator 1.93: Ch 2 Meters
Options: stop=false
Incoming: MIDI D0 pp
Rules:
if pp>32 then exit rules, skip Outgoing Action
if pp>=16 then qq=0+1
rr=pp-16
exit rules, execute Outgoing Action
Outgoing: MIDI a0 qq rr

i now have 2 channels of discreet meters showin!..Yay!


The other thing is where i need help. Ill describe it in "english' and u can "spit" the code pls! It about the meters ballistics now. It i have a peak of say 09hex and then nothing comes in for a second or two, the meters stay at that level for too long. They dont get stuck any more tho. If a value of 05hex then comes in,then the meter will descend to that light.
The sender doesnt send semi immediate falling vALues by 1's.

So what i need is a timer thing that says when u reach ANY peak xx. wait ..say..10ms then output decending values by 1's until a higher peak comes in than where u are currently. Then that peak becomes the new xx. Phew!

Does that make any sense?

I also made a sysex display "breakthru" today. will post..should i make a seperate topic..or just stay here when i talk of the SysEx stuff?

Really,,Thanks for all y'alls help! I tried my "frankenHUI" today with Reason and it saw it as a MCU! Worked well as far as i can tell.Thanks, Almost home ! Feets down fail me now!
" ..i got 10 more miles to go girl.."
Guido

the line in your rules that says qq=0+1 just says qq=1, so I'm not sure if that's the intention.

I think there's a way to get into timers like this but it's far from easy so it'll take some time. I'm curious if you had a different intention with that qq line, cause sometimes things like that could change it.

Also, could the rr have something to do with it as well? The problem is that the messages are going to be constantly coming in, going up and down, and it would have to wait for no signal to come in, so it's doable, just trying to see if there's any other fine tuning we can do first.

DvlsAdvct wrote:the line in your rules that says qq=0+1 just says qq=1, so I'm not sure if that's the intention.

I think there's a way to get into timers like this but it's far from easy so it'll take some time. I'm curious if you had a different intention with that qq line, cause sometimes things like that could change it.

Also, could the rr have something to do with it as well? The problem is that the messages are going to be constantly coming in, going up and down, and it would have to wait for no signal to come in, so it's doable, just trying to see if there's any other fine tuning we can do first.

Hi,

qq+1 changes the meters output to track two on the recieving end. That translator shown above is just what separates the D0 pp to just "listen to track two", I will have 7 or eight of these translators with 16 dec added or subtracted.

All 8 tracks of meter data come in from Daw as D0 xy where x is the track #{from 0 to 7} and y is the meter value in stages from 1 hex to A hex with 0 off.. like the msb lsb thing i think..it works tho. But if there is a better way..im all ears^^.
I hope i am understanding your question correctly and not seeing the obvious or somethin.


...."The problem is that the messages are going to be constantly coming in, going up and down, and it would have to wait for no signal to come in, so it's doable, just trying to see if there's any other fine tuning we can do first..."

look at the text files attached above....http://www.bome.com/forums/download/file.php?id=127 is a good output meant for my hardware meters from Logic..its for 1 track... track 1

http://www.bome.com/forums/download/file.php?id=126 is what Reaper{mcu} is sending...thats for 3 tracks..the mcu sends 00 meter values for any tracks shown on the control surface when there is no audio playing on that track. Thats what threw me. In this particular dump i had 3 track in the song.

Guido

Okay, so i think it has finally clicked in my brain.

essentially, your input for a meter will be D0 xy. X is the channel, y is the level. So you're going to have (hypothetically) three channels of audio coded into BMT. You want the y to be related to the pp in a0 00 pp that's being sent to the LED, on the controller. When it reads as D0 00/10/20 (depending on the channel) the corresponding LED needs to be a0 00 00 (for channel 1).

I think we can do this with timers. Keep in mind I can't test this so if I'm wrong then it's just back to the drawing board. So your first translator (for channel one) will read as
So for this, 01 is for Channel 2 in the output, and the rule will make sure that the upper end of the rate will line up. Let me know if that works.

Hi Jared,

Wow,,i cant keep up. okay i will try that code for timer.

This is all eight faders or channels done. Seperated. Not with ur timer fix for the ballistics. it just shows the proper signal at the proper meter. u were absolutely right abouot my redundant math i fixed it as the meters went on and will fix the rest. Works. Now for the ballistics. Thanks man!

Guido

DvlsAdvct wrote:

Code: Select all

Translator 1.93: Ch 2 Meter
Incoming: D0 pp
rules
if pp>32 then exit rules, skip outgoing action
if pp<16 then exit rules, skip outgoing action
g0=pp
Outgoing Message: Timer Ch 2 Meter LED 0ms Delay

Translator 1.94: Ch 2 Meter LED
Incoming: Ch 2 Meter LED
rules
pp=g0-16
Outgoing: a0 01 pp

So for this, 01 is for Channel 2 in the output, and the rule will make sure that the upper end of the rate will line up. Let me know if that works.

If this is to separate the channels..i got that. i mean its working right now with that last bit i sent u. I need the timers for the "smoothing" of the missing "decending by ones" info in the sent meter value from Reaper. Sorry if im not clear on this.

EDIT this may clear things...i dont need to go to 00 to "clear" the peaks. if a meter is sittin there lit after a value of say..06..that would be about alil more than half way up {about 12 of the 24 leds lit} And then i follow semi quickly with a value of say 03..the lights go down to about 3 or 4 lights lit. Does that help?

EDIT 2 I think i may have misunderstood the purpose of ur code..I will try it in a bit...I need a break..how do do this all day w/o ur head flying off!^^

Guido

hah I don't do this all day very often, and when I do my head definitely flies off.

The ballistics are going to be a problem. I'm having a hard time understanding how the LEDs are reacting. Are you saying that they are just jumping down suddenly, as opposed to fading down? So it's going from 6 to 0 with no real sliding motion?

DvlsAdvct wrote:hah I don't do this all day very often, and when I do my head definitely flies off.

The ballistics are going to be a problem. I'm having a hard time understanding how the LEDs are reacting. Are you saying that they are just jumping down suddenly, as opposed to fading down? So it's going from 6 to 0 with no real sliding motion?

Hi,
No,They stay up too long... Its like a matter of not enuff resolution overtime is bein sent by he mcu because it expects LCD not LEDS..

say the meter get a value of 08 out of a kick drum spike..they will stay at 08 until a lesser or greater value comes. In real world its should start falling.

Thats where i need a series of falling values until a new greater value than the falling values occurs. Did i say that?^^ pls read again^^
My hw meters on my board dont seem to like big jumps down say directly from 0A to 02. it wants a lil minusha.^^

At a cetain point its going to have to take a video ,,,so if that is the case..i could start my biggest sysex question. let me know. And mucho grassyass for your patience.

Guido

Okay, I think I got what you're selling. Let me see how this works.
Once again, can't test right now, doing this kinda from memory. When you select timers there's a check box for Kill Timer. Let me know your thoughts.

DvlsAdvct wrote:Okay, I think I got what you're selling. Let me see how this works.
....
Once again, can't test right now, doing this kinda from memory. When you select timers there's a check box for Kill Timer. Let me know your thoughts.

Oh man!

I think I may have finaly esplained right Lucy^^ That "looks" like the ticket I need a cpl hrs to get to it..but i wanted to say "DAAANKEEE" or thx ma home slice!!! {i got kids^^}

Oh man!


"5 more miles to go girl ..and my feets are hurtin mighty bad..5 mo 5 mo" Sorry im gettin byte drunk^^Thx

Guido

Hi jared,

I need to mess with it more.. I dont know if im doin somethin wrong ...the way the timer values fall is perfect.. but im not getting the signals from the daw to show on the meter yet. I want to give you more detail but i gotta look at the logs more. I do see tho it keeps puting out just A0 10 10 ? ill be back

Thx

Guido

You should be able to stop the a0 01 10 message that keeps getting sent by adding one more translator
What do you mean you're not getting the signals from the DAW to show on the meter? The log window is showing everything happening but the output isn't being sent to the unit?

Are you sure you have it as a0 01 and not a0 10?

DvlsAdvct wrote:You should be able to stop the a0 01 10 message that keeps getting sent by adding one more translator

Code: Select all

Translator 1.97: Ch 2 Meter Decay Kill
Incoming: Ch 2 Meter LED Decay
rules
if g1!=0 then exit rules, skip outgoing action
Outgoing: Kill Timer Ch 2 Meter LED Decay

What do you mean you're not getting the signals from the DAW to show on the meter? The log window is showing everything happening but the output isn't being sent to the unit?
Are you sure you have it as a0 01 and not a0 10?

Hi,

Man these meters are kicken my ass!

I need to do more "research".........the weird thing is the s variable below. I dont have "stereo master meters" so "side"..the s variable, means nothing..Except that,to my meters ..a value of 0x10 is the same as 0x00..and so is 0x02 =0x12..this may have something to do with something.^^

Received format for meters..
"....Format: a0 0y sv

y : channel (0..7)

s : side (left/right)
s = 0 : side = left
s = 1 : side = right
I dont have a master fader on the recieving end so i think i can skip the "s" variable ,,," yeah sure pal^^


".....What do you mean you're not getting the signals from the DAW to show on the meter? The log window is showing everything happening but the output isn't being sent to the unit?

Are you sure you have it as a0 01 and not a0 10?...."

When i use the code u sent me with the timers, and turn off or delete what i had before for meter 2...i see no meter activity on meter 2. I look in the log, the only out put i see goin OUT to my meter is A0 01 10..which i now see that that =00 [see above} I do see the translators doin their thing ..condition satisfied and skip outgoing action. I am in the process of putting together a clear log for u .

How do u do that "code thing" in your posts?

If i turn off the Kill timer translator.. I can see the meter moving up and then down smoothly..but on its own. Meaning.not in response to a midi input.

If i leave just Translator 1.93 and 1.94 ..Ch 2 Meter and Ch 2 Meter LED respectively.... on and turn off the rest of the translators I still just see A0 01 10s. I was thinking this should light the meters without the decay "massaging".

I want to do a cpl more expeiments to make sure i am not encountering some "bug" or something. While i was entering the code u gave me i made some mistakes and wanted to start over. So i reloaded my project..w/o ur code...and when i went to enter a name for the timers. the "previous timers were still in the list. I s that normal?

I am sorry that so much info from my side is guesswork either because of my limited brainpower or the "reverse engineering" i gotta do.

EDIT The valid range for my meters is 0x00 to 0x0C..or 0x10 to 0x1C..arrrggghhh so it makes sense that a value of 10 is goin to show nothin.

Guido

Hi Jared,

They win..I cant take this meter stuff anymore. It will have to wait till i do a video. You have gone way beyond the call of duty here, and i appreciate it. I m goin to put the meter part aside and switch to Main display sysex. ill try the meters later after that.

I will start a new topic in a bit if thats ok.

EDIT But i would like to know y those timers once created dont leave when deleted. I reloaded again and they are still in the "timer list"/ if i restart Bomes it resets.
The problem with that is ..EVERY TIME i quit bomes .I have to reboot my Digital mixing board..or hui because it will start sending single byte bogus midi. I was going to ask about that later.
Like what messages does bomes send over midi when exiting? Hate to keep rebooting the "old girl" so i try to not quit bomes untiol the end of the day


Thanks again D A

Guido

Wait... what starts sending bogus MIDI?

The timers might not be cleared until restart of Bome. But if they are there they should not be triggered regardless. I have a feeling it's just in case something is accidentally deleted you can still have everything there.

But once they are deleted they shouldn't be getting triggered.

DvlsAdvct wrote:Wait... what starts sending bogus MIDI?

The timers might not be cleared until restart of Bome. But if they are there they should not be triggered regardless. I have a feeling it's just in case something is accidentally deleted you can still have everything there.

But once they are deleted they shouldn't be getting triggered.

No no...sry for the confusion..

Its been this way since i started using bomes. I pretty much isolated "who" is the "offender".I checked Midiox..Reaper..etc. and short of switching physical midi ports..I have a few..it looks like BMTP. To be clear its only when i quit BMTP. Then my board goes midi spaz.and sends..hex..in monitor


22
10
7F
00........and so on. Reboot board.

I figured out how to kill a 'runaway timer."

But as a possible note of interest..i couldnt figure out why when i disabled kill timer and then started the decay timer, my meters would maybe start high and go down smoothly then disappear..only to come back a couple of seconds later. On examining the log i see the "disappeared" time was when the values output were out of range of the meter.
You probably already figured this but i wanted to throw it in there.

Thanks for the info on the timers..but it does make it confusing if u start seeing 2 of the same name^^

Hey Guido & DvlsAdvct....GREAT job so far!

Just bought a second hand Mackie HUI controller and now figuring out how to get it to work with Ableton Live, which uses the Mackie Control script. Thanks to you guys, the HUI has came alive

So far I've loaded up the HUI MCU script in BMT and working out some stuff.... I've entered the values from this post (including the Decay Kill bit), but still figuring out how to get bot Left and Right meter for a specific channel working. I can only program the left one.

Also I only see a (lovely!) smooth meter when the timer kicks in, this is when killing the signal (pressing stop) / Fader down. When playing the meter still has a slow refresh rate.

I was wondering as some time has passed, if you guys extended this BMT script? I've got a lot to do still, the motor faders don't work and vpot sends and alot of other things...I guess this was made with the D8B in mind which uses different messages than the HUI? If that makes any sense...

Anyway would love to get this going, maybe you could share the latest BMT script? That would be awesome

Thanks!

Got the faders working (activated a Ping signal, to keep the HUI online). Should have read the reverse engineering PDF a bit closer

Working on the Large display now...I'm putting all the values from the incoming MCU protocol into variables, and reformatting them with the proper HUI zones. Got track names to show up, just not dynamically yet.

Again....hope I'm not reinventing the wheel here....any scripts are welcome!
ah well....it's kind of fun to discover and see the HUI coming alive more and more after each step

Hi Ralfi,

Its great to hear that someone finds this usefull!!!

I got stuck at the dispay and timecode and meters part. I have NO idea what i was doin...dvl did all the work!
I come from the generation that thinks python is a snake..and variable is a weather forecast^^
You are not reinventing the wheel..

Plz..Plz..Plz update me here if u can get the displays etc. goin.
I have been prayin for someone to finish this thing.^^ If u are on PC..there is a utility to display the mcu info..by mountain utilities..i dont know if that would be any help to u in ur deelopment.

I will chk and see if i uploaded the latest script i have.

Fantastic news and glad to meet u!

Guido

Hi Ralffi,

Here is the latest i have.....i could have sworn i put this up b4^^......

Hows the hui awakening goin?

Guido