Using APC40 to trigger Serato Key strokes

Hello World.
I am using an APC40 in conjunction with Serato Scratch Live. SSL's MIDI learn feature makes it nice and easy to map most commands, which I have done, but now I want to map stuff that can only be done via keystrokes, hence the need for Bomes MT. If I can, I'm trying to do this without even installing Ableton*. I'm hitting a few problems, all of which are preventing me from doing this successfully.

1. I'm getting 'Out of memory' messages when running bomes classic together with SSL and the APC40. If I use Bomes + Serato, I don't get any problem and I'm able to assign midi messages to keystrokes okay. Likewise, if I fire up only the APC + Bomes, everything's cool, but if Bomes is running when I fire up SSL, it [SSL] doesn't receive any incoming midi from the APC.

If I exit MT and re-enable the device in SSL, it works fine, but if I now go back and re-open MT, I get "Access violation at address 004C4814 in Module 'MidiTranslator.exe'. Write of address 00000064." And that's when it tells me "Cannot open MIDI Input device 'Akai APC40'....Not enough memory" and then it goes on to tell me it "Failed to open MIDI input device 'Akai APC40'".

So, this is the more criticial issue since I won't be able to do a darned thing if I can't have all 3 devices running at once.
However, assuming that someone here can help me get them running, I will immediately hit another snag.

**UPDATE** It seems the trick is to ensure that Serato (or Ableton) are launched only after you have have both the APC and MT running. I've had no problems since doing this.

2. I have a button mapped on the APC to 'Jump to Loop' in Serato, using a key combination of CTRL+[. When capturing it in MT, it seems the APC is sending both note on and note off messages, but this is causing it to act as if the key has been pressed twice.
96 34 7F = Note On #7, E3, vel 127
86 34 7F = Note Off #7, E3, vel 127

Naturally, this is undesireable as I only want clips, loops or cues to trigger once and ONLY when I press the button.

**UPDATE** Instead of using a key combination in the outgoing section, I have tried creating two translators; one for each key. Will see if this helps.

3. And once this is done, I'd also like to change the behaviour of certain buttons on the APC that toggle on/off by default. I want them to act as a one-shot trigger, just like most of the other buttons do.

I'm determined to solve all three of these and will be hard at work trying to figure it out, but in case anyone can help me, or if posting here helps anybody else, then please do.

Thanks

*Note. In case it matters, I don't have Ableton installed yet and would rather not have to install it to change anything on the APC40 if I can help it. This is because the special version of Live that ships with the APC won't activate the Bridge in Serato, for which I'll need to install the 30-day trial. But I'm concerned about installing 2 versions of live simultaneously or running into problems when the trial ends, so until I can afford to buy a full license I'd rather not install Ableton at all.

I mention this because most solutions I've found online mention going into Ableton and making the APC 'dumb'. If it turns out that I will really need to do this then of course I'm willing to install it immediately.

Hi Ren.

You have found good solutions to your first 2 problems:

1. You should connect the APC, then open MT, then open SSL.

2. Yes, a translator for each message is the right idea, just allow the Note ON to control a Key Command.

And for 3. Can you go into more detail? You are NOT using the APC to control Live right? Just SSL? And you can MT to handle whether or not a button is a single press or toggle switch?

thanks,
Scott

Thanks Scott. First of all, I don't know how to program MT so that it just listens to the note on or off. When I hit a button on any of my controllers, MT receives both on and off data (as you would expect), but I can't seem to get it to record or act on just one of them. If you could shed more light on this, I'd appreciate it.

And as for the other problem, it's really an issue for the ableton forums but on the APC40, some buttons have different default states. Some are one-shot triggers (like the clip grid pads) and others are set to toggle. Well, I want full control over how every knob, button and fader behave and I'm unsure how best to go about it.

I have a feeling I need to do it from Ableton somehow (at least to begin with) and make the APC truly 'dumb'. But I'd imagine that all that would do is remove the default programming. I'll still need some sort of modifier to program the buttons the way I want. I certainly can't change any of the APC40's settings from within SSL and I'm unsure how much I can expect to be able to do it from within MT, if at all.

Hi,


As Scott Know I'm also trying to control Serato with APC 40. I am sure that APC is the best combination to manage loop, fx and sample in serato.

As Ren told, some pad are one shot wheras other are toggle, as show in the following picture

http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/apc40.php

I encourage, Ren in his work and perhaps we could have a collaboration realizing a mapping for APC 40 in order to control Serato. As I told before, I am pretty sure that it's the best solution to control loop, sampler, fx. In that case I think that:

1. We have to gain the ability to attribute pad to serato functionality via bome MT (I think that if we start to use bome mt, it would not be possible to map via serato, except if we close and don't use bome mt).
2. We need to make shift buton work to use a maximum of serato functionality with APC
3. We need to have "one shot" part to be a toggle part. And, furthermore, it should be constantly light and change color when it have an activity on it.

That's the begining of my reflexion, I am sure Ren got other ideas and that if we can start, fixing some goals, we could develop a great mapping to use APC to control Serato.

PS1: I sure that what we are doing with bome is reversible and that it would not affect "internal" apc mapping which is preconfigure for ableton. When we don't use bome mt, apc got factory set up.

PS2: I am sorry, perhaps some part of my text isn't understandable. I am asking indulgence because english isn't my native tongue.

Not to worry dounounba, your written English is perfectly understandable and thanks for the support.
I'm new here so I don't 'know' Chris, but from what I can see, he devotes a lot of time toward helping out everyone here so yeah, big props to him and the others like him. This looks like a friendly forum for what is a powerful and neat bit of software.

Anyway, to respond to your questions....

1.) It is still possible to midi learn/midi map in SSL while Bomes is running, even if it's controlling parts of SSL.

2) I have a theory about this. I notice that the APC defaults to midi channel 1, as a lot of equipment does. But as there are usually bewtween 1 and 16 midi channels per device, I plan on using buttons 1 to 8 to select midi channels 1-8 and then using either shift or the Master button to switch to 9-16. Providing I can get SSL to remember the different mappings for the different channels, you'll effectively be able to map every button on the APC at least 16 times over, possibly more if the shift key can still be used to double up each of the controls.

Why do I want this? So that I can have different maps and layouts for different parts of the software or for different performance routines, or even to control multiple devices from the same one controller.

So far, my first map for SSL is a 'global' map which gives me instant hands-on control over the most used functions without having to switch banks or anything funky. But then I want to break each bank down and expand on individual areas, such as looping, effects, single-deck layouts etc.

And, with the single deck layouts, I figure I can use the cross fader of the APC40 to switch between two banks and then map each one for each deck. This is so much more intuitive to me than toggling a shift button. Just move the fader back and forth as normal to switch from deck to deck. It does have a drawback though, as I've found a lot more creative uses for the cross fader, so I may just stick with using the shift or track control buttons, but we'll see. My point is, I'm SURE that extra 'shift' functionality can be achieved.



3. I agree. I'd love to have the lights working, but I must admit, for now, I'm more concerned about functionality than asthetics. I can think of so many cool and creative uses for the lighting, so I'm just as keen to see that one resolved as you are, but I have enough on my plate to deal with for now.

And in relation to the toggle buttons, I'm beginning to get the feeling that it'll be quicker and easier to start with a blank slate and make the APC 'dumb' first. And as far as I know, this requires installing Ableton and even then, I'm not sure if or how the APC remembers that it is in dumb mode if Ableton is shut down again. Nor am I sure what would happen when you fired up Ableton again.

This is partly why I'd much rather have the APC remain in its default state if at all possible, so that any MT or Serato maps I create will work with any APC right out of the box. It's also why I'd like to get it to work with Bomes classic, rather than Pro or even Max4live, which has often been suggested to me. I want to come up with a free and easy solution for all but I must admit, I've got the Pro version on my shopping list, so to save time and to make my life easier, I may just go Pro from the get-go.

PS1. I touched on this in the last paragraph above. It's definitely reversible and maybe even possible without changing anything on the APC at all. The real issue is getting the APC to remember any special modifications we make, if we have to make any. In fact, there are loads of real issues, but let's stick with a few at a time, eh?

I don't have as much time this week as I did over the weekend, but I'll continue to work on all this as often as I can. All help and support is appreciated, as always.

Hi Ren,

I plan on using buttons 1 to 8 to select midi channels 1-8 and then using either shift or the Master button to switch to 9-16. (...) to map every button on the APC at least 16 times over

What you have planed is awesome, but I must admit that I don"t have the ability to help you in your work. I am still a noob, in bome and midi mapping. Actually, APC 40 is my first midi controller, and I have it for one month no more.

Nevertheless I really would like to encouraging you. I'll continue to fiddle my APC with Bome, but I am not sure of the result. You definitely are in another level in regard of midi mapping using bome. I'll be really glad to test your mapping when it will be finished.

Heh. 'Planned' is the operative word. Whether or when I'll be able to achieve it is another matter and it certainly won't be without at least a bit of help, which I'd be quite willing to pay for.

Btw as a bit of an update, I tested to see whether SSL can successfully receive and store midi data from multiple channels and it certainly looks like it. I had my APC going out on channel 1 and the Dicers showed up on channel 15. Next I'll test adding the MPC and my midi keyboard and see what happens. I've only got one midi-to-USB converter though, or I could add more. Still, so long as the theory's sound, I know it'll work.

What will be interesting is to test what happens if two or more devices are set to the same channel. I'm pretty sure that'll work too, because SSL won't let you map a command with more than one control, but there might be other conflicts of some kind. I do like the way SSL keeps its midi mapping clean and uncomplicated, but it's a bit frustrating because I want to get complex and I can only go so far, even with MT.


It's also a shame that SSL doesn't seem to receognise virtual midi devices. Makes me wonder if it's possible to 'fool' windows into treating a virtual midi device as a hardware device. That would probably work, and would allow you to get really funky, but how possible it is, I don't yet know.....