QU Series Mixers, Windows and Pro Tools

Hello,
I am trying to get a QU-24, Pro Tools 11 on Windows 7 64 bit to work and it is giving me a fit.
I have browsed the forum and the net and have arrived at the following. I tried to modify and GS-R24 Bome template and could not get the PT ping signal to work. So started from scratch and added the Ping Translator.

After researching was able to get the ping translator to catch the incoming signal at 90 00 00 and per research send out at 90 00 7f with a 400 millisecond , 200 millisecond, 1 second and no delay. I am able to see Midi In/Translate/Midi Out. However PT's continues to give me the unable to communicate with HUI message.

What am I missing.. I feel if I can get past that .. I can get the faders etc configured. Thanks

Unfortunately in Pro Tools 11 both send and receive of HUI are typically emulated. I was lead to believe that the ping was absolutely needed in order to get communication properly working. But it turns out you don't. In fact having a ping caused more problems.

So, select to not show the HUI communication error anymore, your controller will still send and receive if properly connected.

Thanks for the Response.

Clarification... I have removed the ping Translator. In Pro Tools setup for peripherals I have HUI - Bones virtual 1 to Bones Virtual 1. In MT my defalult ports are all of the Bomes ports plus the midi in/out for my device. I see midi in/translation/out in the Bome. No response from device. Any suggestions is greatly appreciated.

Well there looks to be a little bit more involved than you're mentioning. The QU-24 has a DAW Driver available, but not for PC. I don't know what messages your mixer is sending to Bomes, or if they're even sending the proper messages without being properly configured as a DAW controller. If you aren't sending and receiving the proper messages, nothing will work.

I had nothing but trouble with Bomes internal midi ports, so I Invested in LoopBe30 and gave each path it's own virtual midi line (no loopback)

You are correct in assessing that I am using the QU however in building the translator from scratch I only wanted to get the Bomes to tell Pro Tools that it was HUI. So the only thing in this intitial preset was the ping to PT. I felt that once I got that going, I would add in the QU functionality and go from there.

Yes they have the DAW driver only available to OSX. The QU also sends standard midi messages. This is the Mode I would use it in once I got the MT to be HUI in PT. So the additional involvement is not in play at this time as I am simply trying to get PT HUI to accept the Bome ping.

What I dont understand in what you touched on is this apparent affinity for Windows. Also there appears to be anecdotal evidence that something is different from PT 10/11. I wonder if there is confirmation of that difference in that my HUI based 002 was fine in 10 but lost functionality in 11. I also wonder if 32 bit 10 to 64 bit 11 is somehow coming into play..

Enough rambling. My goal is simply to build a translator that PT 11 will respond to first then add the rest much like what you did with the RS 232 device. Is that approach incorrect?

I had set up a ping like you did in MT and it was functional in PT10. The ping was communicating with PT10 and I was not getting an error. This told me that MT and PT10 was linked via ping successfully. However, once I connected to PT11 I was not getting the same results. Still to this day I don't know why. But only recently did I discover that we can still send and receive midi data to and from a controller (thru MT) without ping and 10 & 11. Versions prior to 9 require a ping.

Your 002 may also require a ping, which is problematic in 11 obviously. Lots of people lost functionality in 11 with their controllers. Since HUI isn't supported and, I wouldn't expect a fix anytime soon or at all.

But I can assure you that as long as your device is connected properly between PT and MT, a ping isn't needed. You can skip right over this part. It won't work.

So I see my device in PT as an emulated midi device. Lets say that in MT I remove the ping translator and setup the device so that It translates from my hardware to MT .

In PT do I :
1. Setup the Bomes in Peripherals as HUI assigned to its ports (again no translator for ping)?
2. Create a midi device in midi studio for the hardware?
3 Create a midi device in PT midi studio for the MT?
4. Some combination of this?

Thanks for your responses and your input.

Ok. So you see your device in PT as an emulated device. We won't be connecting your mixer to PT, but you will connect it to the input and output of MT. Here is what your signal flow should look like.

You will want to make 2 translators in MT. One for sending the signal from your mixer through MT, and then to PT. Then, the second translator will go in the opposite direction. The second will receive data from PT, through MT, and back to your mixer.

In MT, make a master translator that will house all of the data coming from your mixer. In that master translator, you will add individual translations for all of the functions you want to translate, such as mute, solo, select, record enable and faders, to start. The "input" of each translation will be set specific to the QU-24's midi port, whatever it is called. The "output" of each translation will be set to an available virtual port in Bome's or LoopBe30 (<I prefer these virtual midi ports). This virtual output port will be selected in Pro Tools, in the 'receive from' drop down menu. This will take data coming from your mixer, read the midi messages from it (they need to match) and then output in MT your specific HUI messages out to PT.

Do the complete opposite (in the other direction: PT>MT>mixer) and use another available virtual midi port to send back to your mixer. It's important to know that any midi ports used in MT (any ports assigned to any input or output) need to be turned on and active in the MT preferences. They may be 'disabled' and won't pass data.

Here is my template, even though you don't have the same midi ports, you can use it to try and understand the signal flow.

Thanks, I will review your preset. I have setup the configuration as you have described but then it had the ping translator in it. Again, thanks.

Also in PT .. Will I setup a typical connection in Peripherals using the Bome as In and Out and the protocol of HUI with the error message suppressed. I want to be sure I am clear on this. Thanks.

That is correct.

Ok..

Tried it 3 ways.
1. From Scratch.. No Ping 2 Translation QU to MT / MT to QU - Using your value as to what HUI would expect and Used preset for Aand H GR 24. See Translation ... No effect

2. From Scratch .. With Ping . Same as above . No effect

3. Using GS Template. Removing Ping Translator. Deleting All entries except Fader one for QU to MT/MT to QU. I see the expected activity from Bome .. No effect within PT. Its Frustrating.. But I have a feeling that if this were PT 10 this would be working.. I don't know what that variable is....

What is the GS template? Can you please attach it so I can view it?

Sure.. here it is... Its another mixer from A&H that has 24 flying faders. I assumed it would be a good starting point for this one. Thanks.

In that template. I tried with and without the timer. I also took out all other entries in both Translators except Fader 1. Then I changed the Midi in in the first translator to the captured message from the board and also to the Midi Out of the 2nd Translator. Thanks.

Please download MidiOx (it's free) and connect your mixer device to the i/o to read what midi messages are coming from the 24. Start with the mute button and not the faders. This will help me troubleshoot with you

Here you go and thanks. 8 mute buttons...

Ok....

Lastest Update... Just for kicks I went back and loaded PT 10.. It works... There is definitely something different about 64bit 11. Something definitely has changed. How can we find out what... ?? Thanks.

Hmmm... That is bazaar indeed... Let me think about this one.

Can you confirm that your mixer is working without the ping in 10? I don't understand how I can send and receive data using my mixer without a ping in 11 and you are having issues.... it doesn't make any sense..

The only thing I can think of now is that there is an issue with the 'emulated' midi devices in 11. If you'll notice in PT 10, only one device is labeled as 'emulated'. In 11, both the 'receive from' and 'send to' devices are both emulated. I am not actually sending and receiving my devices thru MT anymore, but it was working as far as I could tell months ago. I can't recall if I was having issues with 11 then.

Ok, taking a step back here... I've just now had the chance to look at your file "WIN_GS to HUI - PROTOOLS_1.3" that you uploaded for me to view. You also posted a screen shot of the mute button midi messages being sent from your mixer/controller, and here is what I am seeing:

In your screen shot with MidiOx, Mute Button press and release send these messages:
Mute Ch 1 Press: 91 00 7F (from the QU-24)
Mute Ch 1 Release: 81 00 00 (from the QU-24)

However, the translator shows the incoming messages from the QU-24, for Mute Button press and release as:
Mute Ch 1 Press: 9F 45 7F
Mute Ch 1 Release: 8F 45 00

So, these don't match and won't pass thru MT, yet you claim that this is working for you in PT10? Or did you change the preset to include the proper incoming midi messages?

The second assumption is the more accurate one. The GS 24 preset that I sent you was the original (unmodified) from A&H so that you could see what I was building my preset from. As stated earlier, I started from scratch building the ping and starting with fader one to start my test. So the messages in that template are for a different board. The midi ox output is actual output from the QU.. which as you alluded to .... Would have different messages than the original GS 24 Template.

With that said .. The preset that I am building contains the ping and fader 1 (B1 00 pp) and the output from the GS 24 fader 1 preset. This gives me movement of physical fader 1 on the QU and Fader 9 and 17 in PT depending on what "bank" it thinks I am on.. So more tweaking is required. My point is that in PT 10 this works and in PT 11 the same setup does not.

I will take away the Ping in 10 to see what that does. This does seem to correlate very similar behavior to the Digi 002 functionality in 10 and its loss of it in 11. All things being equal.. Something changed in my estimation.

Very interesting. As I mentioned before, I was unable to get the ping responding in 11, but was working in 10. Unfortunately I am not in a position to test one of my controllers with MT and 11. But if my memory serves me correctly, I too had the same issue translating data (which is why I thought ping was mandatory!)

The only thing I can think of that may be causing this is because MT is a 32 bit program, as is PT10. So, they talk to each other properly. So, is the problem 64/32 bit cross compatibility? I would think it didn't matter, because the virtual midi ports shouldn't succumb to that... I wouldn't think. Maybe Florian has some thoughts on this?

In absolute theory, if you are getting a mute button for fader to send and receive properly in PT10 with MT (moving controller fader activates fader in PT on screen, and moving a fader on screen moves fader on controller), there is no reason why it shouldn't work in 11.

Just to confirm, you have clicked "don't show message again" when the HUI error message displays in 11?

Im really surprised A&H don't have a program for Windows. That should be available and would solve all of this, I would imagine :/

On second thought, I have my controllers translating on a hardware level, using an Arduino. This shows up as a midi device, and are physical ports (not virtual ports). This may be why my controllers work in both 10 & 11. I'm really leaning towards cross compatibility issues :/

Hello,

Yes.. I have suppressed the error message in 11. And I am in full agreement with you. In theory is should work. But the fact is that the exact config yields different results on the same machine. The delta being Bome 32 bit/ PT 10.3.8 32 bit and Bome 32bit and PT 11.0.3 64 bit. I also believe as stated earlier to this being the similar demise to the Digi 003 console functionality..

I am in contact with A&H and they indicate a preset is forthcoming.. They are aware of my view on PT 11 incompatibility with the Bome /preset solution for Windows users. I am also working with them on the ping issue in 11. Again no issue in 10. Thanks for all of your input, help and articles.

Hi, regarding the virtual ports issue: the virtual ports are 64-bit on a 64-bit system and they should be visible by both 32-bit and 64-bit programs. So they just don't show up in PT 11?
Which version of Windows do you use?

Guess, I should install PT 11 to see what happens, but any insight from you guys is welcome.

Regards,
Florian

Hello Florian,

I am using Wndows 7 64 bit with PT 10.3.8. and PT 11 latest version. I am using Bome to configure a A&H Qu24. Both versions (PT) are installed on the same machine. PT 10 works as expected with the Bome. PT 11 is erractic.. At one point It would not respond at all and continuously threw the HUI cannot communicate error. Now I seem to have one way communication in 11 (HUI to device). I still get the cannot communicate error so I suppressed it and I still get the one way communication. I can shut down 11 go back to 10 and all is right with the world.. On the same box..

This reminds me of very similar behavior with the Digi 002.. Fine on 10 on 11 loss of HUI control.. I hope this helps and let me know if I can be of any assistance. Thanks.

Hi Lunatech,
thanks for the info. It seems to me that this is unlikely an issue with the virtual ports, though if you wouldn't mind, I can send you the new version of the virtual MIDI port to let you see if that changes anything.

Thanks,
Florian

Hi Florian,

I do not mind at all. I am inclined to agree with seeing that in 10 on the same machine there is no issue. So please do and any instructions needed and I will hop on it as soon as I get to that work station and will respond back. Thanks a lot.. !!

Lunatech, please check your email inbox.

Hi Florian,

Got it.. I will follow up. Thanks so much.

Hello Florian,

Tried out the new ports and as you predicted did not make a difference in PT 11. Slider 10 translator quit working also ...Just rebuilt it and then reverted back to 1.72. So thanks .. I appreciate it. I went back to the HUI pdf and in it it states that the Ping is not needed except for the faders. My best guess is that if the HUI cannot communicate message in 11 is resolved... (takes the ping) the faders will work. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

One last emphasis:

HUI to device appears to work.. Device to HUI does not in 11. Same communication stream right?....I don't get it.

Update:

I broke down and did a uninstall of PT 11 including all preferences , midi controllers and devices. Feeling brave and courageous, I installed PT 12.. And it worked... I am speculating that a few things came together to showcase my issue and to get me to the point where it is working. The thing was I noticed that When 12 came up it re arranged the order of the translators, in the 10 setup where it worked it was off like 1,3,2 could not figure that out.. So now it was in a neat order... The other thing this made remember was that When I tested the translator newer version, When Bome came up it had aliases that I believe where related to the older virtual ports prior to the upgrade. This made me speculate one that PT has a config file associated with a device and its "settings" in that if that is changed via update, moving to new usb port (for testing), uninstalling and reinstalling drivers (for testing).. The "new" ports somehow do not "match" the "id" of the older ones thus PT does not "speak" to them properly.

With all of that said... I have a question.. In the uninstalll of Bomes for a clean reinstall (for troubleshooting purposes) are there identifiers left in the registry that could be cleaned up in these cases..

The other statement would be for those having potential PT HUI issues if feasible uninstall with the option of clearing the controller/midi settings and reinstall to see if HUI may respond. Thanks. IHTH

Hi Lunatech,
thanks for reporting back (and sorry for the late reponse). MT does remember your MIDI ports and sets them to "pending" if they don't exist so that you can use them directly when they get accessible. Now when ports change name (as happens for the MT beta), you'll keep your old ports forever in MT if they are "pending". You can close them and upon next start of MT, they should be gone. In MT 1.8 (beta), you can just delete such pending ports.

The uninstaller of MT clean up as much as is possible.
Thanks.

Hi Florian,

Hypothetically, Is it possible then to "rename" newer ports to a previous port identity? Thanks.

Nice. it is posible. Thanks so much guy.

tongclub62 wrote:Nice. it is posible. Thanks so much guy.

Np... This process is like having a drop dead gorgeous girlfriend... You want the relationship to work but boy are there a lot of challenges. Looking at " the girl next door" from now on. Less complicated... Sheesh......

Hello,

For Philt80... Here are those files.. good luck.

Thanks! What version of MT did you use for your translator settings. I've got the demo of 1.8 and it says it can't open with this version.

1.72 was the version it was created in...The project would not open either?

The qt Mt file will open but the translation file will not. W is the difference between th files?

One is the actual project file (qu mt). And the other is an export of the translator settings. Once unzipped this will need to be possibly imported into an translator project. Thanks.

So I open the file QUMT and import the config (it just blinks when I go to import no confirmation of import). I'm using studio one, make a HUI device, the first 8 faders give feedback.. no Qu to daw and thats about it.. not sure if I'm doing something wrong or if I need to set something else? thanks for all your help!

also my midi log on Studio One blinks NoteOn c-2 every second on ch 1 port [out] qu 24 with a message of 90 00 00 00

So first I would say is I did not test this with Studio One. If studio one has a HUI mode then take another step and add two more HUI devices using the translator 2 in and outs and then translator 3 in and outs for control of banks 9-16 and 17 -24. (HUI could only control 8 banks at a time.) ( Also ensure that the MT has 3 virtual ports to choose from)!

The 90.00.00 is emulation of the HUI ping. This is important. The thing is that when Studio One is running look at the Translator Gui you should also see the midi note firing at the midi in AND on the Translator AND on the Midi Out. If not the QU to DAW functionality will not sync or work.

With that said ... here are some tips... If in the QU project for MT see if there are "ghost" ports and remove those. Save the template and try to see if this helps.
Also open and empty MT project and do the import there.. Save it and see if this helps

Lastly, Try from a blank MU template look at my preset on how to construct the ping translator from both the HUI to QU and the QU to HUI. If by building this piece fresh and the ping is translating then import the translator file, disable the ping translators that are imported (using the one's you built) and see if this helps.

Not sure whats going on.. I see all ports but not sure what to select in MT
for QU 24 to HUI preset is this correct?
Midi IN Port - QU-24 MIDI in
Midi OUT pot - translator 1,2,3 virtual out

For HUI to QU-24 preset
Midi IN Port - Midi translator 1,2,3 virtual in
Midi OUT Port - Qu-24 midi out

From what I can see this might make sense.. but nothing is happening on board other than now my channel one mute light has come on and I can't turn it off so confused!
Do I need to drag some lines in the midi router?


Thanks for all your help on this.. I'm a total noob, and this interface is crazy backwards.

Sorry about the delay. Have you made any progress on this. In MT all of the ports to be used should be selected. This includes The QU, the three "virtual " ports. Also nothing should configured for the router in this configuration. So there are two presets. One that "talks" from the mixer to HUI. And the other that talks from HUI to the mixer. This means the first preset controls the action related to "if I move the faders on the mixer, the faders in the DAW will move. The second preset does the reverse. Getting a handle on this is crucial to moving this forward.

Ok.... The first Preset in the Translator (QU to HUI) is challenging in that it has the "ping" mentioned earlier. This is the equivalent of the hardware control surfaces it is emulating way of letting the DAW know that it is present. The DAW will acknowledge this "greeting" with a response. Generally if this is not working, there will be no movement/action if controls are activated from the mixer. So in the translator, one of the first hurdles to overcome is looking at the translator action, does it indicate that activity at Midi In/Translating/Midi Out. If not this is a crucial place to start looking.

Review the following:

In the translator settings itself push the Midi icon and ensure that all six of the Midi Translator ports and checked along with the QU's in and out. See attached screenshot.

In the QU to HUI preset, Rt. mouse click it and choose "Default Midi Ports".
The first column should have "Project Default Ports" selected with and therefore no items selected below it. Match the screenshot attached.
Do the same to the HUI to QU preset and match the attached screenshot for it.

Lets start here and let me know where we are. Also HUI only worked in banks of 8. That is what the 3 virtual ports represent in the software. So there should be 3 HUI controllers setup in the software. Translor 1 , and 3. Let me know

Hey lunatech - much appreciated!!!!
THANKS!!!! for getting back to me.. your screenshots really helped but I still can't get this going. I think I have a newer version and it has changed things! Here are my project defaults. I am using v 1.8.0 build 757 which is probably different than yours. I'm going to slap some screenshots up so you can point out where I'm going wrong.
Here are the midi ports etc This is what happens when I load your translator settings I think the ports are NAMED differently based on version. So I went through and I changed/added the Bome (without the 's) to each translation and still no go.
Here are my qu to hui settings default to what you had. Sometimes when I add the QU port it puts the mute button on fader 1 and all midi functions stop Screenshots in next post

Here is the Hui to QU settings
Since I am now starting to use Samplitude Pro X2 I've attached the settings. I've only started with ONE hui port to see if I could get anything working. I'm not sure where to go from here. As I mentioned I did change the ins and outs to the right Bome translator but I still get nothing. Although!!! I do get the ping going both in MT and samplitude.

Thanks for your time and help!