possible to convert 14bit NRPN to 14bit pitchbend ? (solved)

Hi all, new member here and totally new to MT.

I'd like to know if it possible to convert 14 bit NRPN CC's to 14 bit pitchbend messages with MT (back and forth).

Background:

I have a BCR2000 which I use as a Mackie control emulation.
The BCR can send 14bit pitchbend in principle, but there's a problem when doing so, MIDI feedback back to the BCR doesn't work anymore then.

also mentioned here (post #2)
kvraudio.com_forum_viewtopic.php?p=4353121
(replace _ with /)


So I thought maybe it's possible using 14bit NRPN instead and MT to convert back and forth between pitchbend and NRPN ?
So the chain would be:
- BCR sends NRPN -> MT converts to pitchbend -> DAW (REAPER)
- REAPER sends pitchbend (parameter feedback) -> MT converts to NRPN -> BCR

(I unfortunately can't use NRPN directly to control REAPER parameters because the Mackie implementation cannot be changed to work with other messages than pitchbend)

Thanks.

Hi no fish,

I'm sure its possible using mt p . Can u learn/capture in mtp, then ....dam its been so long since I programmed that I need to go boot it up and see. U need two variables I think. Bb in a bit...good to see fellow reaperite here! What does the nrpn look like coming from bcf? In hex plz

Guido

Hi nofish ,

It starting to come back..heheh. First plz tell me u have midi translator pro..the classic doesn't support 14 bit..I don't think.
Second u need to create 2 bomes presets. One bcf>>>>>>klinke...one klinke>>>>>>bcf. Then in preset default midi ports u can set them approiatly.

If u look at my project in mtp , d8b/hui, or something like that, in the MCU to hui preset a translator named "fader 1 move" has an in coming trigger " E0 qq pp" . pitch bend...it sends out
"B0 00 pp B0 20 qq" . which is hui speak for move fader 1.

U can do just about any midi thing with bomes!!!

Pretty much what Guido said. I'm traveling right now, but once I'm back home in a few days I will take a look if you need more assistance.

Jared

Thanks for the replies and sorry for the delay to get back to you.

Meanwhile I've tried other possibilities (waited for a reply from Behringer support) but no luck. They said it's not possible to receive PB messages when im 14bit mode.

So I'd be ready to try with MT as it seems it's my last chance to get 14bit communication going (I've just downloaded the pro trial), but I've no idea where to start really.
I consider myself mainly a musician and even though I do have a basic understanding of MIDI and its internals when it comes to 14bit NRPN's that's where it starts to get loose for me.

So if someone was in the mood to provide me with a 'step by step' this would be very appreciated. If not (which I could perfectly understand), I think I'd just give up and continue using 7bit only, as it's not ideal but it at least works.

Thanks.

Hi No fish,

I'd be glad to help. I think if u would tell me ur midi setup.....what ins and out are named connected to bcf...and then I'll do one fader..and then send u a project.I think once u see it, it will be clear. How long is the demo for?

Ur bcf and mt p would be an awesome combo IMHO.

Guido. Now aka lugnut on reaper forums.

BTW..although I've never done it, maybe we could use some sort of chat? Or here or reaperfforums?

Hi,

Just thought I would add....what u want to do is dead simple for mtp.
Providing the bcf can respond to midi by moving the faders..which I'm pretty sure it can.

In my application I'm doing almost the same thing, but a lot more. Like u could have on e button on the bcf which when pressed turns all/some buttons ,vpots, faders into sending and receiving different commands. Like the dwifferent layers in the new berringer cs that's coming out soon. The memory and CPU footprint on my xp machine is negligible and I have thousands of translators...the lines to the right in the program.

I just wanted to let u know that ...bomes is a land of FULFILLED promises! Heheheh

Guido

Hi Guido, thanks for your generous offer, I really appreciate it.

I'd think it would be ok doing it here (instead of the Reaper forum) as it's actually more related to MT than Reaper. As you suggested, doing one and send me the project would be great as I then can hopefully figure out the rest. Though note that I'm using the BCR not the BCF but I think that doesn't really matter as both are very similar in features.

Ok, so here goes...

I have the BCR set up in Reaper as control surface as a Mackie emulation to use together with Klinke's MCU plugin

The signal flows are (currently):

- BCR sends pitchbend (7bit) -> Reaper (to control faders etc.)
- Reaper (sends pitchbend, parameter feedback) -> BCR (although Reaper sends back 14bit pitchbend only MSB is recognized by the BCR due to above limitation)

planned signal flow, full 14bit (with help of MT):

- BCR sends NRPN (14bit) -> MT converts to pitchbend (14bit) -> Reaper
- Reaper sends pitchbend (14bit) -> MT converts to NRPN (14bit) -> BCR

I've programmed one of the BCR's rotaries to send NRPN and attached a pic what it is sending. (one value consists of 4 output lines, marked with the red line). This is from max value turned backwards. I figure that first Data Entry LSB is counted backwards to 0 than Data Entry MSB is decremented and so on. But that's about it. No idea how I would convert that to pitchbend.

Is this enough info for you, otherwise please tell me what else I should provide.

Thank you again.

Hi no fish,

Vpots eh? OK..

I see exactly what your trying to achieve. As a brief explanation....some terminology...Project....like a reaper song file...Preset....i use it to define one way comms.
For ex....BCR to MCU would be the first preset. MCU to BCR would be the second. And Translator is where the action is. Now get it going first bcr to MCU. In reaper prefs, control surfaces disable the out port...this is to avoid the position info being sent from MCU confusing the capture midi in mtp . In mtp from a new project, main menu..Preset>>>>>New. Now making sure that the new preset is selected..by clicking on it....main menu ...Translator>>>>>>New. Now for the midi ports...under main menu MIDI. MIDI PORTS...here u enable all the ports u will use in this project.

Now under main menu MIDI select Preset ports..remember make sure the proper preset is'' selected on left....in this case the first preset.... Under input select specific port and put a check in the bcrs out port. Under output check specific port and Bomes Midi Translator 1.
-Click apply OK.

Now dbl click the new translator u have in the middle of the screen...a "card" comes up with some tabs on top. Click Incoming....check capture midi and move the bcr dial. Get anything? Now uncheck capture midi.

In this preset incoming is from bcr so u put the 14 bit message here..just type it in leaving a space for every 2 digits. Here's where i m funny on what u sent in the attach. I think its sending in pairs, but I could be wrong. As u prob know, normal midi commands are 3 bytes, So two midi commands, 6 bytes would be 14 bit. U need two val bytes to do 14 bit.

In mtp u can use local variables for the value bytes like pp and qq in the midi message. Find which of the bcr sent messages bytes is the two value bytes and put pp in one and qq in the other.
Now click the outgoing message tab..select midi message in the pull down. Now type
E0 pp qq...that's pitch bend on channel 1 with the two values. If I'm right about the nrpns then your golden. Or maybe reverse pp and qq...they might be using msb then LSB,or the other way round.

If I'm not right ,I'm still sure it can be done, but there's some math, or Rules in MTP speak. And that would have to wait for Jared or Florian for help.

Let me know if u got this far. And do you have the midi implementation docs for the bcr?

Good luck..

Guido

PS in reaper control surfaces..klinkes..select midi translator 1 as input

Hi Guido,

thanks so much for the detailed reply.
Just wanted to let you know that it'll probably take a few days until I can try this out but I'll definately get back here and report how it went.

Meanwhile, as for the MIDI implementation of the BCR, I currently only have what's available at Behringer.

http://www.behringerdownload.de/BCR2000 ... ng_ENG.pdf

edit:
Oh and the BC MIDI implementation doc found here is probably also a good ressource, but I haven't looked into it yet to be honest.

http://mountainutilities.eu/bc2000

Hi

On page 87 of the mountain utility site doc...the golden answer is...unwere right! The values are the midi commands where 06h and 26h reside! No math!

In my instructions in previous post ....where u enter the incoming message in the "card"....

Type. B0 63 00 B0 62 63 B0 06 pp B0 26 qq..or then reverse maybe.Bb in a bit

Guido, first sorry for the terribly late reply !

Didn't get around earlier testing this but it works !

Only thing I had to do different from your answer was swap 63 and 62 (as you said in your last post), because MSB and LSB were the wrong way.

But now it's working and I can use full 14 bit resolution, amazing.

Thanks again for help, without it I would have never managed to get it going. Much appreciated.

Hi No fish,

All right! Super glad to hear. Necro success! Bomes is the stuff! Cya round the forums,

Guido

Nelliebype wrote:I am new to using command line with UltraEdit.

What I want to do is run UltraEdit from a command line, pass it a filename and have it search the file for a character and replace that character.

Any ideas on how to do this ?

Hi,

No, sorry I don't even know what ultra edit is?